Lens Diaries Go Now
Glamour, Beauty, Nude, Models, Photographers

*    |  Register  


 
Go Back   Garage Glamour™ > Garage Glamour™ Main Forums > Tech Talk Forum
 

Tech Talk Forum Photography & Technical Related Only!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
outdoor fill flash advise
Old 07-01-2003, 06:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
LivingINDaytona

 
JaysonFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35280
Location: Daytona Beach. Fl.
Posts: 741
Comments: 0
Send a message via AIM to JaysonFromMaine Send a message via Yahoo to JaysonFromMaine

JaysonFromMaine is offline IP: 24.128.68.39
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I want to be able to use my sunpak 120J barebulb (150 guide number) out doors as a fill source with my RZ67..saddly my education in the area of outdoor fill flash is lacking..I need an easy system that i can use in all types of light includeing bright high noon ( most common where i am..) any help is welcome
  View Public Profile Send a private message to JaysonFromMaine Visit JaysonFromMaine's homepage! Find More Posts by JaysonFromMaine
 
Depends
Old 07-01-2003, 09:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
J T Smith

 
jtsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35390
Location: Pittsfield
Posts: 882
Comments: 0

jtsmith is offline IP: 12.45.209.159
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

.....depending on the look you are going after........

Don't just think as flash as fill but rather your main light. Anytime you have blue sky or harsh back light you may consider using your portable flash as main.

You can get some interesting rich saturated blue skies by underexposing the background while exposing the subject with your flash. I am not familiar with your flash but it it would have to have enough power to do so. I am just offering a tip in addition to the common term fill.

You need to understand what the natural light is doing first to determine what you need to do as far as fill to enhance the image further with fill flash.

It doesn't do you any good to fill shadows if the shadows are deforming the subject to begin with. Just sticking a fill flash up, does not mean you are going to do it justice.

I got a way from using fill flash and started to concentrate more on natural flat lighting and then punch it with either natural light reflector source or those round discs that go flying off like a kite in the wind.

If you are in a flat lighting situation and expose for that then you can get by with 1/2 stop to 1 stop less then that exposure for fill. That will open up the flat light and put a little more detail in shadows. Basically, you should have a guide number on your flash to understand that. If your exposure is f-11 at 125 and you want to put a one stop fill then you need to tell the flash to output f-8 to the subject, thus giving you a one stop fill.

The bottom line is that I expose for the highlight of the natural light, then determine the look I want. If my exposure is f-11 at 125 and my camera syncs at 125, I am then going to evaluate the difference that I want in density. Do I want to match the available light? do I want to put detail in shadows? Do I want to have that rich dark blue sky? or do I need to use the flash as main to get rid of harsh light deformations.....

All these factors and more determine the use of fill flash. All you basically have to do is tell your flash what you want it to do. Auto pilot works as well. Just tell your flash what you want it to do.

I hope this helps....

J T

  View Public Profile Send a private message to jtsmith Visit jtsmith's homepage! Find More Posts by jtsmith
 
Re: Depends
Old 07-01-2003, 09:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
LivingINDaytona

 
JaysonFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35280
Location: Daytona Beach. Fl.
Posts: 741
Comments: 0
Send a message via AIM to JaysonFromMaine Send a message via Yahoo to JaysonFromMaine

JaysonFromMaine is offline IP: 24.128.68.39
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

when I am shooting my f100 I just use the TTL and it does great...
but the RZ is all manual ( here is a link to my flash >>

http://www.tocad.com/flash/120j.html

  View Public Profile Send a private message to JaysonFromMaine Visit JaysonFromMaine's homepage! Find More Posts by JaysonFromMaine
 
Ok, here\'s some tips.
Old 07-01-2003, 11:20 AM   #4 (permalink)
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
 
Member GG#:
Posts: n/a
Comments:

IP: 165.95.207.169
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

First, bare bulb outdoors is so much nonsense. Light going every which way, with no reflective surfaces, is simply light lost.

That said, fill flash is simply balancing the light by putting enough fill in to prevent shadows from being too contrasty. That is about 2/3-1/2 stop under the ambient.

Of course, the better method, is to use the flash as a main, and let the ambient be the fill. In that case, if you set the flash equal to the ambient, then move the flash to a main light position, considering the angle of incidence, the flash should give you from 1/2-2/3 stops brighter light than the ambient. That assumes you move the main at least 35 degs. off axis, up to 90 degs. off axis. More than 90 degs. requires an adjustment, due to the angle of incidence.

I will have to e-mail an example. The outdoor ones I have on line, were either done natural, or with reflectors. (Tonight.) [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
 
 
Re: Ok, here\'s some tips.
Old 07-01-2003, 12:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
LivingINDaytona

 
JaysonFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35280
Location: Daytona Beach. Fl.
Posts: 741
Comments: 0
Send a message via AIM to JaysonFromMaine Send a message via Yahoo to JaysonFromMaine

JaysonFromMaine is offline IP: 24.128.68.39
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

i also have a Sunpak PZ5000AF ..more like the SB28.. I have reflectors in two sizes ( white/silver ) but the wind like to play with them and i do not always have a second person...I would be useing the 120J barebulb with the Dish/ reflector on and maybe a warming gel ??
  View Public Profile Send a private message to JaysonFromMaine Visit JaysonFromMaine's homepage! Find More Posts by JaysonFromMaine
 
Warming gel optional. (NM)
Old 07-01-2003, 12:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
 
Member GG#:
Posts: n/a
Comments:

IP: 165.95.207.169
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

NM
 
 
What you need to know about fill flash.
Old 07-02-2003, 10:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
Oddly Irritating

 
ErnieR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35404
Location: Paragould
Posts: 260
Comments: 2

ErnieR is offline IP: 147.97.130.243
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

FIRST
Read f you need for the scene without flash(ambient). This is fs.

SECOND
Read the f you need WITHOUT FLASH for the subject (the people) fp.

THIRD
If the difference between both measures is:

0 Stops: Then you do not need any flash.
1 Stop: Put the flash to fp.
2 Stops: Put the flash to 1.5 stops over fp
3 stops or more Put the flash to fs. The ambient light is not enough.

FOR EXAMPLE:

A beach, the sky reading is f:11. The people reading is f:8. Difference 1 stop. So you
put your flash to f:8.

Sky f:11, people f:5.6 Difference 2 stops. Put your flash to f:8+1/2.

Sky f:11. People f:4. Difference 3 stops. Put your flash to f:11.

Works like a charm...who needs TTL when you have a brain [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


  View Public Profile Send a private message to ErnieR Visit ErnieR's homepage! Find More Posts by ErnieR
 
As it happens ...
Old 07-06-2003, 02:59 PM   #8 (permalink)
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
 
Member GG#:
Posts: n/a
Comments:

IP: 12.168.68.45
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

... I have begun playing with flash outdoors recently. Far from an expert, but from my experiments so far I have to agree with JT and Rick about using the flash as the main. Careful metering (or testing with digital) can keep it from looking like a flash shot.

Also as it happens someone on another forum asked about lighting for some of these so I have a diagram ready:


I used the image above for the lighting diagram because the effects of the reflector were more apparent.

The image below (same light setup) shows more of how I tried to balance the flash against the sunlight. I felt that if I brought the flash up to the point that all of the sun flecks on her top, etc. were overpowered it would have looked to much like a flash photo. Since I was trying for a natural look I tried to keep them in but used the flash to tone them down so they wouldn't be burned out or overly distracting. They metered about a stop over the main flash.

You mentioned below using the built in flash. The very small size of that as a source makes a harsh light. My experience with that has shown that using those only for fill works best; when they become the main, it gives an extremely "on camera flash" snapshot overall look. Using a more powerful flash bare will achieve a similar look due again to the small size of the light source. Hope this helps!


It should also be mentioned that this is a way complicated setup for me lately as I usually don't even use reflectors. I have been playing with this idea because I have been feeling a little in a rut lighting wise lately.

 
 
Re: As it happens ...
Old 07-06-2003, 04:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
LivingINDaytona

 
JaysonFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35280
Location: Daytona Beach. Fl.
Posts: 741
Comments: 0
Send a message via AIM to JaysonFromMaine Send a message via Yahoo to JaysonFromMaine

JaysonFromMaine is offline IP: 24.128.68.39
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

i must have mistyped something.... I have a sunpak 120J barebulb (150 guide number) and a sunpak PZ5000af ( like a SB28 ).... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
  View Public Profile Send a private message to JaysonFromMaine Visit JaysonFromMaine's homepage! Find More Posts by JaysonFromMaine
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WB setting for strobes? LePhotography08 Tech Talk Forum 13 01-09-2008 09:48 AM
Going Digital Advice ABosio Tech Talk Forum 18 09-30-2003 10:06 PM

Sponsors


New To Site? Need Help? Photographer & Model Links
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 PM.

© 1999-2017 Garage Glamour™




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93