Lens Diaries Go Now
Glamour, Beauty, Nude, Models, Photographers

*    |  Register  


 
Go Back   Garage Glamour™ > Garage Glamour™ Main Forums > Tech Talk Forum
 

Tech Talk Forum Photography & Technical Related Only!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 03-31-2011, 07:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
Moderator

 
PhotoDave1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Member GG#: 51075
Location: Tampa
Posts: 407
Comments: 1
My Mood:
Send a message via Skype™ to PhotoDave1

PhotoDave1 is offline IP: 173.170.231.246
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Unless you have been asleep for the past 10 years everyone pretty much knows that the entire photography industry is under attack. Professionals are constantly being asked to provide more and being paid less. If that wasn't enough we have the Digital Joe's and Digital Debbie's undercutting the efforts of professionals who have to make a living and keep roofs over their heads with their photography. There are far too many people today who are too shortsighted and fixated on price alone to the point that they cannot see the "value added" part of what professionals offer and it is killing the professional photography industry.

As an example I was recently contacted by a Church Group that was hosting a mixer for their young women. I was asked to photograph the event and provide candid photos to the young ladies. I gave them a fair price and was told I would hear from them shortly. I got a call last week from the President of the Youth group who told me very kindly that they were going to go with someone else, the impetetus being that my price was too high. When I asked a couple of questions I learned that I had not been given all of the information nor had I been given accurate information. It turned out that all these young ladies wanted was pictures for their social networking profiles and not much more. A Nephew of a church member who had photographed T-Ball 8 years ago was going to do the photography and give CD's to the young ladies for $10.00 per CD. The Church was happy, the young ladies were happy, and some kid was happy because he had beer money for the next month but I lost out on a potential assignment on the basis of price and this happens everyday and it got me to thinking that in this economy true photographers everywhere have to constantly be on the lookout for ways to produce better photographs that will allow them to keep whatever edge they may have.

With all of that being said I have been looking at my workflow with an eye to punching it up a bit to help me maintain whatever edge I may have. I have two Canon Digital bodies that I use and each offers the Picture Styles. When I first bought my 30D I was told by the shop that Picture Styles were an abomination and no serious photographer would ever use them but now I am wondering. The camera makers put a lot of time and R&D effort into what they offer and they wouldn't do it if they didn't see a market for it so the question I want to ask is how many photographers here who shoot with Canon use the Picture Styles?

When I first set up my camera I set the Neutral style with the Sharpness and Contrast bumped up one notch but all of the provided Picture Styles can be customized. I have been looking at the Standard Picture Style (with adjustments) for everyday use and the Portrait Picture Style (again with adjustments) for my Portrait/Glamour photography.

What do you think guys? Do you Canon shooters use the Picture Styles? If you do are they used as if or do you customize them? Inquiring minds want to know!
__________________
3031 Photography
Tampa, FL
GG#: 51075
deallen313@yahoo.com
Skype IM: DAllen3031
Twitter: ThePhotoPro1
Web Page: www.flickr.com/photos/3031photography/
Gear: Canon EOS 40D w/Grip + EOS 1N w/Grip; Tamron 28-70mm F2.8; Tamron 70-200 F2.8; Canon 430EXll
  View Public Profile Send a private message to PhotoDave1 Visit PhotoDave1's homepage! Find More Posts by PhotoDave1
Last edited by PhotoDave1; 03-31-2011 at 07:59 AM.. Reason: SP
 
Re: In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 03-31-2011, 09:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
Founder Garage Glamour™

 
rolandogomez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Member GG#: 1
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 1,778
Comments: 10
My Mood:
Send a message via AIM to rolandogomez

rolandogomez is offline IP: 72.179.146.130
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

The only picture styles I use is my style, let the cameras take the pictures, let the post-production software do what it's intended to do, but most important, get it right in the camera first!

I like to think of today's software as the darkroom, or "room of corrections" like that of film days. I might add, Adobe® Photoshop® is over 20-years old today and I've been using it for all twenty plus years. The only thing I've added over the years, is the options that Nik Software offers. Just my thoughts, get it right in the camera, don't let the camera get it right for you, because the camera companies are good at making cameras, not software. rg sends!
__________________
Photographer & Author author of five photography books. My newest book is Socially Smart: Twitter Plus Facebook, Marketing Multipliers And Brand Boosters Click here for My Tweet Workshop Information and the Photo Blog
  View Public Profile Send a private message to rolandogomez Visit rolandogomez's homepage! Find More Posts by rolandogomez
 
Re: In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 03-31-2011, 09:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member GG#: 55764
Location: West Texas
Posts: 709
Comments: 0
My Mood:

BenE is offline IP: 64.185.5.121
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I shoot everything raw, thus the picture style has nothing to do with the final image, because I use Photoshop and not Canon's Photo Professional software.

http://www.usa.canon.com/content/pic...dpp/index.html
  View Public Profile Send a private message to BenE Visit BenE's homepage! Find More Posts by BenE
Last edited by BenE; 03-31-2011 at 09:58 AM..
 
Re: In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 03-31-2011, 09:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member GG#: 55764
Location: West Texas
Posts: 709
Comments: 0
My Mood:

BenE is offline IP: 64.185.5.121
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandogomez View Post
The only picture styles I use is my style, let the cameras take the pictures, let the post-production software do what it's intended to do, but most important, get it right in the camera first!

=======
Perhaps I am not understanding Dave's question. Picture style has nothing to do with getting it right in the camera. Picture style is a set of parameters that set sharpness, contrast, saturation, and color tone.

It has no effect on raw images, unless you are using Canon's digital Photo Professional, and has no effect on what your particular style is.

If you use Photoshop, it is different.

As you say, software can be used to adjust all of those even more.

At the moment I have my "Style" on Landscape, sharpness to the highest, contrast at low, saturation at low. I never change it, because I never use a jpg for anything except to preview an image.

...

Dave, I suggest if you are using jpgs for making the final image, you use portrait, and set sharpness at 6, everything else at 2, and see how you like the results.
Then adjust accordingly to your taste, until you have a big smile on your face.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to BenE Visit BenE's homepage! Find More Posts by BenE
 
Re: In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 03-31-2011, 09:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
Moderator

 
PhotoDave1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Member GG#: 51075
Location: Tampa
Posts: 407
Comments: 1
My Mood:
Send a message via Skype™ to PhotoDave1

PhotoDave1 is offline IP: 173.170.231.246
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenE View Post
Perhaps I am not understanding Dave's question. Picture style has nothing to do with getting it right in the camera. Picture style is a set of parameters that set sharpness, contrast, saturation, and color tone.

It has no effect on raw images, and has no effect on what your particular style is.

As you say, software can be used to adjust all of those even more.

At the moment I have my "Style" on Landscape, sharpness to the highest, contrast at low, saturation at low. I never change it, because I never use a jpg for anything except to preview an image.

...

Dave, I suggest if you are using jpgs for making the final image, you use portrait, and set sharpness at 6, everything else at 2, and see how you like the results.
Then adjust accordingly to your taste, until you have a big smile on your face.
Thank you Ben, you understood my question perfectly and your response and understanding of Picture Styles was spot on. Once it stops raining here I am going to go out on photo safari and do some experimenting with my camera.

As a side note, there are many true professionals who do not shoot in RAW. They do use .jpg and pay very close attention to each and every detail and obviously it works for them because they make money at it time and time again.
__________________
3031 Photography
Tampa, FL
GG#: 51075
deallen313@yahoo.com
Skype IM: DAllen3031
Twitter: ThePhotoPro1
Web Page: www.flickr.com/photos/3031photography/
Gear: Canon EOS 40D w/Grip + EOS 1N w/Grip; Tamron 28-70mm F2.8; Tamron 70-200 F2.8; Canon 430EXll
  View Public Profile Send a private message to PhotoDave1 Visit PhotoDave1's homepage! Find More Posts by PhotoDave1
 
Re: In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 03-31-2011, 10:13 AM   #6 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Member GG#: 55764
Location: West Texas
Posts: 709
Comments: 0
My Mood:

BenE is offline IP: 64.185.5.121
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoDave1 View Post
======
As a side note, there are many true professionals who do not shoot in RAW. They do use .jpg and pay very close attention to each and every detail and obviously it works for them because they make money at it time and time again.
That is true.

I am a professional, in my opinion. (full time since 1970) I shoot raw because in my situation it is nearly impossible to create a custom white balance every time I move my subject (outside). I do not really like Auto white balance. There are times that moving a person 4 feet would require a new white balance. Other times I would be shooting and a big cloud would cover the sun and I would need to either wait or create another white balance.
My exposures are very close to correct, so that is not the reason I shoot raw, it is a matter of speed when shooting. I might need 4 or more custom white balances for any given shoot, and that takes too much time. And even if I could store all the white balances I need, trying to use them is a pain, and time consuming, and most regular portrait subjects would think I was really an amateur if I had to take time to create a white balance every time we changed from one spot to another.

For about 4 years I resisted using raw becasue I was told that "real " pros did not use it. So, I am happy being an amateur, I guess...
  View Public Profile Send a private message to BenE Visit BenE's homepage! Find More Posts by BenE
 
Re: In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 03-31-2011, 10:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Member GG#: 64585
Location: Wayland
Posts: 36
Comments: 0

jbirdmo is offline IP: 72.161.143.13
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Hi Dave,
I use my Canon 7D parked on M all the time and use the "Standard" setting since you have to pick one, everything else (ISO,WB,ect.) is also set to manual. In fact I think the only thing automatic is the focus and even then I pick the focus point manually depending on how I'm framing my shot.

Anything that the Pictures Styles settings do on the camera can be done in post using Lightroom or Photoshop, and I believe rightfully so. One thing to remember when using the Picture Style settings is that the camera will apply all that data to the final output JPG and you would never be able to go back to a "standard" exposure afterwards. Take the black and white setting for example, once it's black and white from the camera you can't put the color back in.

This is also the case with the whole JPG vs. RAW debate. While you can get great results from JPG alone, the camera is still deciding what to throw away. On my 7D when set to JPG the resulting files are in the 4MB range, and the RAW files are usually just over 20MB in size. Just how much color is being thrown away is 16MB!! While everything will still need to be converted to JPG in the end in order to display it on the web, it makes more sense to to work with the whole color range when in the digital dark room, then convert and resize. Something you might find interesting, when converting to JPG from RAW in Lightroom the resulting files are nearly 10MB is size versus just the 4 to 5MB when the camera does it. Like Rolando said, the camera companies are good at making cameras, not so good at the software. I'm definitely starting to understand that even the most basic of processes such as Picture Styles and even conversion to JPG fall under the software catagory.

I'm looking for that edge you mentioned just like every other serious photographer professional or not. So along with that idea, I use the digital camera in many ways like I did the film camera, and then process the images afterwards in the appropriate environment.

Thanks for asking the question! I look forward to seeing valuable insight from others.

---Jude
  View Public Profile Send a private message to jbirdmo Find More Posts by jbirdmo
 
Re: In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 03-31-2011, 07:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
mfharper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member GG#: 35664
Location: Newburgh
Posts: 710
Comments: 1
My Mood:

mfharper is offline IP: 96.27.129.100
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I also shoot just about everything in RAW these days, even weddings. CF cards have gotten so cheap now that storage is not really an issue. To me it just makes sense to give yourself the latitude that Raw capture offers.
__________________
"Nobody belongs to us,
except in memory"
~John Updike

www.hhphoto.net
  View Public Profile Send a private message to mfharper Visit mfharper's homepage! Find More Posts by mfharper
 
Re: In Search Of Better Photographs
Old 04-02-2011, 06:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member GG#: 37608
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 340
Comments: 0

Mark_Oehler is offline IP: 173.20.177.171
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Nikon has a similar thing, which I have used. The amazing thing is you can tweak them in the Nikon software and then download them to the camera later. I have set up some uber-high contrast profiles to do some artsy stuff. But I've also do some with B&Ws so I get a little better B&W right out of the camera. I shoot RAW+JPG and, unless I am going to do a lot with image, I will use the JPG. For me the quality difference can be negligible and it really speeds up my workflow. I custom white balance my camera a lot; the time it takes for me to do on the computer is longer than it takes me to do it on the camera, and if you are going to do any video, you'd have to anyway.

I commend you for considering other options. It is easy to get complacent; a lot harder to question why we do things the way we do. You may end up back at where you started, but at least you'll know better why you're there.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Mark_Oehler Visit Mark_Oehler's homepage! Find More Posts by Mark_Oehler
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Happy New Year, Updates & the New Search Features! rolandogomez Main Community Forum 0 01-02-2008 12:22 PM
How to Search G1 ... R_Fredrick_Smith How Do I? 0 09-21-2007 03:25 PM
Photog search page - search by name? n5wd How Do I? 0 05-12-2006 10:38 PM
Update on Search and More! rolandogomez How Do I? 0 04-04-2006 12:47 AM

Sponsors


New To Site? Need Help? Photographer & Model Links
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:59 PM.

© 1999-2017 Garage Glamour™




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93