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S2
Old 05-27-2003, 06:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
Dax
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This question goes to the S2 owners. Why did you buy that over a D100? From what I have read the D100 is a superior camera and it costs anywhere from $300 to $500 less than the S2.

Why did you guys buy an S2 over a D100?

thanks!
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Re: S2
Old 05-27-2003, 07:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Dax

I can guarentee you that the D100 is not a "superior" camera. Nothing wrong with it, but not superior.

Here are some plusses for the S2

B&W mode -- it's much better than desaturating a color image -- and a time saver.
PC Synch -- you can't forget it if you're borrowing someone else's strobe -- D100 doesn't have one.
Battery System -- uses AA's which can be carried in bulk and available anywhere. I've gone out in the back country where the heat is hard on batteries and you can't go back to the car to recharge.
Capture -- the S2 has a 12mp capture vs the D100's 6.1

That's a few of the highlights. You also have to pick up the cameras and handle them -- I like the layout of the S2's digital controls and LCD better than the D100. That's a personal choice you'll find only when you handle the equipment.

Bob

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Re: S2
Old 05-27-2003, 08:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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RJ,

Very good response with some points I actually agree with such as the B&W which I think removing between the D1 and D100 was one of NIkons biggest mistakes..followed only by removing the pcsync from the camera body.

However a few things...the pcsync is now a part called the AS-15 which removes for easy storage..not great but it does work well... batteries...with the battery pack comes an adapter which allows you to run AA batteries either rechargables or normal as well as the fact with the battery pack I have ran over 1500 images thru before recharging...not because it was dead because i didnt want to risk running dry. And those were using a microdrive which everyone knows is a power hog.

And this is one of my biggest pet peeves. The file size of the raw is 12 megabytes, you get the 12 megapixel res. from using the EX converter or LE. IN the EX converter you have the option to create either 6 megapixel or 12 megapixel sized output. This causes many to believe that the acutal sensor is 12 megapixels. The chip is not doing any interpolation in camera its being done in the EX software, or Qimage for example.

Mike Chaney from Qimage already has taken apart the raw files, Fuji didn't drop the last 4 bits like Nikon does, so you are getting a larger file with just filler. Note the size of the D100 raw is around 10 megabytes.

I believe that the files are 12bit, (Nikon raw is either 8 bit or 12, I can't remember now) in raw mode, not 16 bit, just like Nikon's. If you were capturing 16 bit files you would be getting a even larger file.

Rules of the road.
The Chip is 6.1 megapixels

The raw if 6.1 megapixels, but the file size is 12 megabytes, however because of Fuji's math the 12 megabytes only holds 6.1 megapixels worth of data.

You only get a 12 megapixel output by using software on your PC, either Fuji's EX/LE converter or Qimage

The LE converter only gives the 12 megapixel output and you don't have the option to create 6 megapixel output like the EX converter allows. Its a one step process allowing only the 12 megapixel sized conversion with no image adjustments.

Sorry but thats de facts as far as I know em...The S2 may give out 12 mB (megabyte) files but still is only a 6.1 MP (megapixel) ccd.

Other than that I agree the choice comes down to personal handling and preferences...


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S2 vs D100
Old 05-27-2003, 09:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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All in all many of the differences aforementined about the S2 over the D100 were my reasons for going with the S2. It came down to the little things though as well, IE: ISO 100 on the S2 where as the D100 goes down only to ISO 200. At the time I was paying about $200 more for my S2 then the D100 and honestly felt like I was getting more for that $200. And it just felt better in my hand, sometimes it is that simple. I suggest (I am sure you already have , but if you havn't) go to www.dpreview.com and just line up a side-by-side comparison of the S2 vs the D100. See what suits you.

All in all the D100 might be the best for you, perhaps the S2 might. But its good just to see what camera has a little more or little less and is best suited for your needs.

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To clarify Fujis 12mb file
Old 05-27-2003, 09:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Rick, the 12mb file from Fuji is due to interpolation. ALL the sensors in the CCDs on the market except for Fuji's are rectangular (I believe). Fujis are octogonal. Due to that, there is a bit more information obtained per pixel than the other cameras. Quote from dpreview.com, "the S2 Pro has a 6.17 megapixel SuperCCD which produces a 12 megapixel image. SuperCCD works by combining pixels from the 45 degree pixel layout into a normal square pattern, this has the side-effect of producing more image pixels than were actually captured." To view a picture of a normal CCD versus Fujis CCD layout
click here.
 
 
Comparison
Old 05-27-2003, 09:49 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Dax, there is a direct comparison of the D100 vs the S2 here.

I can tell you that initially when the reviews came out for the D100 they weren't glowing. So that was a first impression I got just by reading. However, I can tell you that either camera is a good buy and you won't go wrong either.

The S2 has standard batteries, ISO 100 vs ISO 200 for the D100, firewire and a PC Sync built in which is a plus for many.
 
 
Re: To clarify Fujis 12mb file
Old 05-27-2003, 11:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Mark,

Exactly my point. Interpolation gives you the 12 meg files...it jsut happens to be done in camera. It is not a true 12 mp camera as interpolation just that interpolation.

Quoted from same article "The use of SuperCCD doesn't have the same controversial impact it had when first introduced, but there are still a good number of sceptics of exactly how this honeycomb CCD layout produces better pictures. Fujifilm didn't help themselves back when they first announced SuperCCD by labelling their first camera '4.3 megapixel' when they were in fact 2.4 megapixel images being 'processed' (interpolated to you and me) up to a 4.3 megapixel image."

The fact of the matter is it is STILL a 6.1 megapixel camera interpolated to 12 .. It is not a true 12.1 mp camera. IT just aint.... it might intepolate pretty dang good and it might be a better image....never compared them personally.... BUT it is not a actual 12 mp camera. I mean comon Kodak 14n is 5 grand....Fuji is selling a camera 2 mp less for half price?

I can take a raw image with my D100 use genuiine fractals and get the same thing. The S2 just does it IN CAMERA

Im not saying the d100 is better than the s2.... I think with the small differences its a matter of preference.... But people screaming the S2 is a 12 mp camera just aint so.

Mark....we can settle it this weekend...same setup...same shot....your S2 vs d100... we can even use the same lense so it isnt a glass comparision....

(hears dueling cameras (banjos) in the background)

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Re: S2
Old 05-27-2003, 11:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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For me, the decision was fairly simple, since I was already an S1 user. The interface of the S1/S2 is quite addictive. My final reasons for choosing Fuji:

Hailed by virtually everyone as being tuned to Fuji's film types for color.

Rear control LCD is amazingly effective.

Simple to change functions - D100 is far more complex, thus slower to navigate.

Super CCD 12mp output has been tested as having 9mp actual effective resolution - half again more than D100.

Runs on AAs alkalines in a pinch.

Direct tethered capture via firewire to a PC.

Sync connector on camera - no hot shoe adapter to fool with or lose.

Just me....

David

ps...many experts are trying to set the record straight. Due to the Hex-shaped pixels and the narrow spacing, the "conversion" from 6.1 million Hex to 12.1 Normal pixels isn't interpolation. I dunno....just what I'm hearing. But if it's perfectly acceptable to use GF or others to upsize files, who cares?

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You misunderstand
Old 05-27-2003, 01:45 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I think all the Digital cameras in this class are fine cameras. There are subtle differences between them that might make one choose one over the other but otherwise they are ALL FINE CAMERAS. However, I do believe if you need to blow up the image to a rather large size you would get more detail from the Fuji than you would from a D60, D10, D100, D1X or D1H. Now that is if you walk up to the large print and compared the same image taken from a S2 and any of the other different cameras you would see the difference. From a distance, if anything, you might see a bit more sharpness to the S2 picture. Most of us aren't shooting things in that realm so it really doesn't matter much when shooting 11x14 and under.

Now when Fuji comes out with the Dual CCD to help with the shadows, then we should see a huge difference in the dynamic range of the camera and Fuji will seperate itself from the pack like the Canon D10 is doing with price (seperating itself from the pack).
 
 
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Old 05-28-2003, 09:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
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