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Photoshop saving question
Old 04-25-2003, 05:36 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I have found a couple of online finishers that I am really pleased with.

The prints I have gotten from them all are great. But I have seen a fatal flaw in my photoshop techniques.

When I enlarged this image (the larger file) I got some pixelation in the print.

but when I sent the un photoshoped image, It was fine. What is the procedure for working on an image then saving it. I think I did a SAVE AS function and it was recompressed, thus the pixelation in the print.
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Several things to consider...
Old 04-25-2003, 08:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You should be giving them a finished image. So by that I mean if you wanted to print a 4x6 image at 300dpi, you should be giving them a 1200x1800 image. Also, if you shoot JPG then make 100% sure you are shooting at the finest quality setting your camera will allow. Lastly while you are doing your retouching, you should be saving as a PSD file in Photoshop until you are ready to go out to print. At that point you should save the file as a JPG in 100% or the highest setting (depending on the method you use to save the JPG). One thing many people don't consider is you should be saving as a multiple of the printer resolution. Epsons print at 1440dpi while Canons print at 1200dpi (if I remember correctly). Thus when you print to Epson you should be saving as 240dpi and if you print to a Canon you should be saving as 300dpi (or any multiple of the printers resolution). If you don't do this, then you will be asking the printer to perform interpolation since the files dpi isn't an exact multiple of the printers dpi.

I hope that helps (phew)
 
 
This is the same idea that I had
Old 04-25-2003, 10:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have noticed that on my photoshop (using 5, going to get 7 next week) it defaults to a res of 72dpi (i guess for web posting). I did the same thing, had photoshop images that printed like crap and the original printed great, until I changed my res to 300 dpi.

just my 2˘

Steve
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Re: Several things to consider...follow up
Old 04-25-2003, 11:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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All of the files I sent the labs were 3072x2048 max jpg res of the 10D (roughly 42x28 inches) but at 72 ppi and all prints were at 8x10.

only the PSed imaged had the pixelation. So mainly what i need to do is shoot all my jpgs in hi res, make a copy, not save as, work on the copy in PS, save the PSed image as a PSD, then convert the PSD to back to a Hi Res JPG?

from what the labs tell me, the a 3072x2048 at 72 ppi will make a 20x30 print just as well as if I scaled the actual size down and made it a 180 ppi.

basically 2+2=4 or a 3+1=4 type situation. am I right?

now i have said my ABC's, next time won't you sing with me?!

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Re: Several things to consider...follow up
Old 04-26-2003, 12:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
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If you saved the files EXACTLY the same the end results should be the EXACTLY the same. Once you enter into Photoshop there are things like color spacing you might have to contend with (depending on your settings).

What you are doing (right now) is having the lab, reprocess your image. Personally I want to give the lab the image exactly the way I want it printed without them (or their hardware) doing anything to my work. So if I wanted an 8x10 from one of my images and I knew the printer was a 300dpi printer. I would resample the file in Photoshop to 2400x3000.

I didn't understand what you were saying about the 20x30 but basically I have heard people say they get fantastic prints from 72dpi (I haven't seen the output though). However, I can tell you that I would resample it myself if I wanted a print that big.

In printing 2+2=4 and 3+1=4 but that doesn't mean you will get the same exact results. Reread my previous threads about the dpi resolution and printers. Same print size but the image dimensions of the files would be different. Fuji Frontiers are 300dpi printers and Noritsus are 400dpi (if memory serves me correctly).
 
 
Re: Several things to consider...follow up
Old 04-26-2003, 06:01 AM   #6 (permalink)
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If you're sending 3072px x 2048px JPEGs out to the lab, it shouldn't matter what the ppi is set to. The lab (and you) should only care about the pixel dimensions of your file.

I'm guessing that you sent your lab 2 versions of the same JPEG file...one Photoshopped and one original? How do the file sizes compare with each other? Is one significantly larger than the other? How does the 2 JPEGs look on screen? Does the Photoshopped version look pixelated to you?

What operations did you do in Photoshop? Did you do any heavy cropping? Did you apply heavy doses of USM?

FWIW- I'm thinking that the pixelation you're seeing is JPEG artifacts from saving at too low a quality out of Photoshop. What quality setting are you using when saving your Photoshopped JPEGs?


(Sorry for the interrogation, but it's difficult to diagnose problems like this without seeing the files involved and the actual output.)

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Re: Several things to consider...follow up
Old 04-26-2003, 12:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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the origianl image was only 1.65 megs. The PSed image was 2.77. I used the Snapshot technique to adjust sharpness around the eyes, and I smoothed out the bags under the eyes. But i think you hit the nail between the eyes. It had to be something with the compression of the JPG.

so my question is, when working with JPGs striaght, what is the best way to work with an image then save the PSed images so that there is no compression?

save as PSD then convert back to jpg? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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I use an Epson printer at 1440
Old 04-26-2003, 12:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I recently went to a Epson Print Workshop.
Before the seminar I use to produce my print files at 300dpi
no matter the setting of the printer was.

During the workshop they told use to use a ration of 1:4.
So if the print output is 1440, the saved image should be 1440/4 = 360dpi

Since them I stick to that formula and it works very well for me.
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The way I would do things...
Old 04-26-2003, 01:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Once I open and start working on a JPEG file in Photoshop, I would save my work in PSD format. This assures me that the file retains all the text and effects layers and that there will be no lossy compression done on the modified file. The PSD format will also retain colorspace information as well. I can open, edit, print, and resave the PSD file whenever needed and not subject the file to further degradation through JPEG re-compression.

When I have to send the file out to a lab which requires a JPEG format, I would then do a convert profile to sRGB and do a "save for web" giving the exported file a quality setting of at least 80 (or "Maximum"). Ideally, you should find a lab that can deal with either TIFF or PSD, but they tend to be $$$$.

The original, untouched JPEG from the camera gets burned to a CD (actually, several CDs) and is considered my "film" along with the PSD file.

(Misc. stuff: I work in AdobeRGB. Yes, I know TIFF will now save layer info.)

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Re: Several things to consider...follow up
Old 04-26-2003, 02:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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JPEG is a compressing format - it will try to encode your data file to save space, REGARDLESS of the "quality factor", as I understand it. Even at 100% quality, it will try to compress the information.

So, what used to be recommended everywhere was to save everything in non-compressing formats - like bitmaps (BMP) or TIFFs. I don't know about GIFs. Only the final retouched image was to be JPEG-ed. To do multiple "open, modified, save" cycles on a JPEG caused an enventual loss of quality.

This was true five or six years ago. I am not aware of any changes in the way JPEGs are encoded, but that doesn't mean much. I'm sure if I'm wrong, it'll be pointed out.

So I'd recommend storing your raw images as TIFFs or similar, if you wish to maintain as much of the original information as possible.

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