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help!!!!
Old 09-10-2005, 12:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Ok so i'm new to this site but I need some advice from other photogs. i recently did a tfp with a model and she has received her disc of approved images. she is now demanding ALL images taken of her that day be released to her for HER to edit and submit for magazine consideration (she received 63 publishable images). she signed a release. she feels that since neither of us were paid, she has co-ownership of the copyright. I don't want to release images that will put my skills as a photographer in question "video hoe". Please let me know what you think and what I should do/how i should handle this. Thanks for any advice!!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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Re: help!!!!
Old 09-10-2005, 12:58 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Copyright is Yours...unless you signed it over too....
you have control on who publishes what...not the model...
atleast I hope Im right!


 
 
Re: help!!!!
Old 09-10-2005, 01:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Without seeing your release, nobody can give you the right answer.
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Re: help!!!!
Old 09-10-2005, 01:17 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The idea of TFP is that the model get images (quanity/quality should be determined before hand) to use to promote herself. You maintain the rights to the images and if somebody wants to use them they shoulde contact you. Now, if she (assume) drums up the person(s) who want to use the images then You should offer her a commision on the sale(s). YMMV
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Re: help!!!!
Old 09-10-2005, 02:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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steen is right. It all depends on what your release says. The release is a "contract" and is legally binding. Don't let her push you around, but if you agreed to something...follow through.
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Unless you gave her. . .
Old 09-10-2005, 02:14 PM   #6 (permalink)
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co-ownership in a written contract you are sole ownership and if you gave her a proper release to sign it would have been so stipulated. Be understanding and helpful but be firm in your desire to keep images that you deem unsuitable. By the way what kind of copyright release did you give her for the 63 publishable images?
As an aside to this I'm amazed at the models (and photographers) that dismiss the time and expense spent by the photographers after the shoot is over as irrelevent.
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Re: help!!!!
Old 09-10-2005, 02:36 PM   #7 (permalink)
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How does she know how many images you have? Besides that, you own the copyright. Make sure you have your images registered. Did you agree to let her get them published?
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first
Old 09-10-2005, 08:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
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the model needs to understand that no one is publishing anything without your signature. Then you can discuss terms. Personally it sounds like the model needs an education and you don't need to do anything...

Bob
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Re: help!!!!
Old 09-10-2005, 09:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Here's my b*tching....

First and foremost:

Deliver all the images in TIFF and JPG format for her usages, even the throwaways.

Second:

They are your Rights unless you agreed to have both Rights, or which ever your Agreement is displayed.

Third:

I really dispise immature and unprofessional models who do these things to photographers. It makes life harder and discourages beginners such as yourself to even advance with other models. That way, people become guarded.

To defend my statement, do they even think they would have the balls to demand such post-production or finalized production from larger clients? The clients pay them the work and not entitled to deliver anything to the model/actor/entertainer. Geez.

These newbie models tend to do things like this and portray attitudes like this-- but only if they would understand that it was your interest anyway-- and should be thankful that you are helping her book.


Here's an image that I didnt expect back. In addition, I always tell MY photographers wanting do TFP to take their time on delivering to me. You photographers do more than shooting. You buy equipment, you plan, you time, execute, photshop, pay for CDs, and mail them.


unprofessionals. blah. So ungrateful.


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here we go again
Old 09-10-2005, 10:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You get a pass because you're new, but old-timers here know I've written about this many times. A model release is not related to copyright ownership. Also, any agreement, written or oral, between you and the model, that lets her use the images in her portfolio or pursuit of work, is not related to either. A model release is her confirmation to you or interested parties that she has consented to you using her images in a commercial way. Copyright is granted solely to the photographer upon creation of the image (with two possible, but extreme exceptions you're not likely to encounter in this example) - while its still in the camera. Just because she feels she should co-own the copyright, doesn't make it so.

As the photographer, you control your creations, not the model. From a business and artistic standpoint, you have much to lose by letting un-finished images out in the world. In the days of film, the model would see everything simply because it was too difficlut to cut frames out of the roll of negatives before making a proof sheet (although I did on occaision for a client, black some of them out with a Sharpie). With color slides, I (and all photographers I know) edited out the bad ones (and shredded them) before we showed them to anybody (models or clients) and of whatever was left, still did not turn everything over to anyone. With models, I would let them come over, see my edited selection, pick a few they liked, an borrow them to make their own prints (and they'd sign a receipt for me, acknowledging that they were my property, and that they were borrowing them and had to return them.) I did this even when I was paid by the model for the shoot. As with traditional portrait photographers, the negatives (or slides, or in this case, digital files) are merely step in the process of producing images. Bottom line, it all belongs to, and stays with, you, even when you're being paid, certainly with a trade-out. Further, as I said, you don't want unretouched, even improperly processed, images floating around with your name on them (and ironically enough, without your name on them). What happens if someone sees them, and they don't look good, and the models says "so and so" took them? Not good for you. You generally only want stuff out there that you approved of.

So...... First, it helps if you learn to shoot such that your images need a minimal amount of post-processing. Second, don't be shy about showing the models and clients only the images you judge to be of the caliber you want to represent your work. If the model insists on seeing ALL of them, have her come to you and look at them on your computer. If that's not possible, work up a PS action or something to make them web-viewing size, and to stamp the word "proof" across them (like the portrait guys do with wedding prints) and make her a CD or put them on a private webpage (short time only). Maybe she wanted to see all of them to ensure you didn't get anything of her bare breast that she didn't know about. Maybe she wants to see where she goofed to improve herself. Both valid reasons, so find a solution that works for you.

Finally, if she thinks she's going to submit them for publication, you need a clear understanding with her that she does not have a co-ownership in the images, and before anyone can publish them, they need a written authorization or license from you. All the big publishers know the law anyway, that's why Maxim, for example, has a form for photographers to sign (they do call it a "release" I think) giving them the right to publish forever, without any compensation or credit line to you. If you want to give her a CD of usable, retouched, print size images, that is up to you, and in a TFCD situation, that is a fair way to go, but that doesn't mean you should give it ALL away.

Regards,
Andy Pearlman
Andy Pearlman Studio
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