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Flat Colors On Websize Images Question
Old 08-21-2005, 07:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hello all

I am having a tough time trying to get my colors set on my web images. I am shooting Adobe RGB in camera (10D) and RAW. What I am noticing is my color saturation is very flat. I have tried SRGB and countless other profiles but it still does the same issue. I have resorted to a 10 and 20% added saturation in a actions for my web images to equal out the saturation I am getting on my print size images.

I notice also that some of my colors have less of a pop once I go from Raw to JPEG.

Please let me know if any of you have any ideas on this

Thank you
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]FreddyB [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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Re: Flat Colors On Websize Images Question
Old 08-21-2005, 10:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It could be that your RAW->JPEG converter is set to a different color space, as well.

Here's what I do.. .maybe you can see something different in what you are doing.

(1) Shoot RAW - my D100 is set to AdobeRGB.
(2) Capture off the CF card via Nikon's VIEW.
(3) Bulk adjust white balance and any gross color corrections using CAPTURE. I'm still in RAW at this point and still in AdobeRGB.
(4) Import into Photoshop using Nikon's RAW converter instead of the AdobeCameraRaw converter.
(5) Make whatever changes, cropping, retouching, etc. and save a master final copy in Photoshop's PSD format.
(6) Up to this point, the image has been in 16-bit mode. Now, I change it to 8-bit mode and save a full-sized JPEG, still in AdobeRGB.
(7) I EDIT>CONVERT to SRGB and then crop and re-size to 500 pixels across the top, and then
(8) SAVE FOR WEB

If you're viewing an AdobeRGB image using a web browser, the images do look flat.

Leaving the image in AdobeRGB until the very last step should insure that the colors stay faithful to what you're seeing.

That help any?

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Re: Flat Colors On Websize Images Question
Old 08-21-2005, 10:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Wayne

I appreciate your help with this matter. What it appears is that I am losing Hues. This is what I have been doing:

1. Camera is set on raw and adobe rgb
2. Convert Raw to JPeg 8bit in ADOBE PS CS and showing Selected IMAGE
3. Edit and set Jpeg to Tiff Save
4. Convert to SRGB Save Jpeg to Save for Web resized to 400x600

See one thing I have noticed is you can see the flat colors in Save for Web aswell and not just on a web browser ughhhhhhhhhhhhh I want my film lol

This is a shot that I bumped up the Saturation to 15% for web. It matches the Adobe RGB print so there is no apparent flat colors between the print and web
FreddyB
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Re: Flat Colors On Websize Images Question
Old 08-21-2005, 11:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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In your first post you said:

[ QUOTE ]
What I am noticing is my color saturation is very flat.

[/ QUOTE ]

In this post you say:

[ QUOTE ]
What it appears is that I am losing Hues.

[/ QUOTE ]

So are you saying that you are having a problem with both Hues and Saturation? And what do you mean when you say the saturation is flat, or that you are losing Hues? Can you show an example before you do any processing? What kind light are you viewing the prints in?

NOTE: Very Important. It appears you are saving your images at greater than 600 pixels in one of the dimensions. If this is the case, then GG will resize the image and set the JPG quality to medium to low which will affect the color as well as the artifacts. Here is an example of both artifacting and color shift due to this problem:



Left photo was 600x400 when uploaded, so wasn't resized and has the proper color and no artifacting. Right photo was 601x400 when uploaded, and you can see the drastic difference after it was automatically resized by GG.

So check that out first, that you are saving it out of Photoshop so that the finished size is 600 or less for both dimensions. In the photo that you posted here, it is 600x400, but the file size is 33822 which is about half the size that one would get with a "high quality" setting in Photoshop. That the first line of attack is to make sure you're saving it out at the right size.

Cheers,
rfs
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Re: Flat Colors On Websize Images Question
Old 08-21-2005, 11:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Ok, are you game to try modifying your workflow a bit?

Try this:

(1) Camera is set to RAW and AdobeRGB (same as before)
(2) Instead of converting from RAW to 8-bit JPEG in CS, merely OPEN the image in Photoshop. It'll open as a 16-bit image.
(3) Do all of your editing and THEN Save as a TIFF (though, really, I'd suggest keeping it as an Adobe .PSD file).
(4) Crop and resize for the web
(5) Convert to 8-bits
(6) Then SAVE to JPEG using the SAVE FOR WEB function

The one thing I see you doing, before, is going from RAW -> JPEG and then to TIFF. Try bypassing the JPEG until you have to use it (like for the web) and see what happens for ya.

Keep us informed as to how it's going, ok Freddy?
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Re: Flat Colors On Websize Images Question
Old 08-21-2005, 11:35 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Great portrait!
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a sample
Old 08-22-2005, 03:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I think you're still saving the images in AdobeRGB, must be something with your workflow. Is this similar to the difference you're seeing? This image saved in both modes (started as AdobeRGB capture. The image marked RGB is how it looks if its not converted):



I shoot in RAW+JPG (with the JPGs being in sRGB since I only use them for web & client review). When I work on a shot for print, I keep it in 16-bit RGB as long as I can, but convert to 8-bit because not all tools work in 16-but mode. the last things I do to an image I'm preparing for the web is size it, add my copyright creditline, convert the mode from AdobeRGB to sRGB, then apply the unsharp mask, then save as a JPG. Works every time. (No, I haven't got "save for web" into my workflow pattern yet, call me old-fashioned).

Its important to make that color space mode change because often times when you open a file, it can be confusing when the dialoge box asks what space you want to work in, if the space you're working in is different than the one your file is upon opening. When you make the color space mode change, don't expect to see any great shift in PS, what its doing is finding the closest browser-safe colors to represent the colors you intended. Also, as someone mentioned, I would go from RAW to PSD, and save the retouched images that way, only making a low-res web copy when you need one for the web. I only use TIF when I'm sending a finished file to a client that I either don't think has PS, or if I don't want them to screw around with the image.

Regards,
Andy Pearlman
Andy Pearlman Studio
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Color me confused...
Old 08-22-2005, 06:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If both are the same basic image, but one on right just "modded" by GG's server, why is the GG modded version sharper, a different color and has more shadow detail?

David B.

ps...GGs server only resizes the portfolio images, not posted images, as your included image proves.
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Re: a sample
Old 08-22-2005, 07:29 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Andy

Thank you for the example. BTW I enjoyed your tips you offered on your videos in Zugatv.

The sample images your showing is the opposite of what I am coming up with. The SRGB is flat and the RGB is more Saturated. I have my GAMMA on my monitor set at Adobe RGB and have even tried SRGB with no difference when changing the profile of the image.

The image here is a conversion profile from RGB to SRGB. I lose my hues and saturation as you can see from converting to SRGB



Thank you for your help
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Re: Flat Colors On Websize Images Question
Old 08-22-2005, 07:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Thank you sir! Nicely done portfolio you have
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