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Why is my Nikon D70 producing PINK pictures?
Old 06-16-2005, 06:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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See the below examples from a Canon 20D, a Nikon D70, and an Olympus E10. The Canon and Olympus seem to produce fairly true to life colors but the Nikon looks too red or pink. This was shot under the same lighting conditions, same model, makeup etc. (obviuosly). The light was a photogenic monolight witha photoflex softbox (no foil). The cameras were all set at 5500 degrees to match the light. On the Olympus and Nikon we're shooting in Adobe RGB (it's not an option on the Olympus so that's SRG). These example photos aren't edited. I don't have any special enhancements turned on on the Nikon to my knowledge. Last night I tried using the white balance fine tuning -1 -2 -3 but I saw hardly any difference between those three steps and 0. I'm not real pleased with the way these are looking. Practical advice anyone? Is my camera defective? Too pink, orange, red, something.

Canon 20d


Olympus E10


Nikon D70
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Re: Why is my Nikon D70 producing PINK pictures?
Old 06-16-2005, 07:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Since you can not dial in a color temp like 5500K on the Nikon (unlike the Olympus, which I'm under the impression will let you do that)... just how are you setting the color temperature on the D70?

And, if you get the desire to experiment some more, take pictures of a model with a grey card included so we get a known value to look at, as well.

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Re: Why is my Nikon D70 producing PINK pictures?
Old 06-16-2005, 07:11 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure I know why.

I looked at your Nikon file EXIF and the light setting used was "flash", meaning the color adjustment was for the on-camera flash.

Since you were using (I'm assuming) daylight temp strobes, you need to have the white balance set for regular full sunlight - NOT FLASH.

Try that and see if the colors don't match perfectly.
 
 
I bet it\'s paris Hilton\'s fault!
Old 06-16-2005, 10:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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She likes pink way to much!.
I hate her!

Marty
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several possibilities
Old 06-17-2005, 12:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
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First of all regardless of your settings, your exposures are all over the place, so its hard to evaluate them. That said, even though you had the cameras set for 5500 degrees, most on-camera flashs and hot shoe flashes are actually cooler, more like 6000 degrees. (I always keep a 5 or 10 yellow or lt straw gel taped over my flash to warm it up). Studio strobes on the other hand come in a variety of flavors. Some flashtubes have a UV coating which warms them up a bit, even within the same brand. (For example, Norman will sell them either way, I have some with and without the coating). Another thing that affects the color on these units is the light modifier - the reflector, umbrella, softbox, etc - depending on whether its painted, metallic, mirror-like, or a combination. Also age. I have an old Chimera that is yellowed a bit and looks great on skin, but when I use my new one I have to put a warming gel over the flashhead inside.

As someone mentioned, to be precise, you should put a gray card in your shot. I actally think in PS you could turn down the red a bit and the D70 will look better than the others. Also, did you convert the Adobe RGB shots to sRGB before posting? If you left them in Adobe the web won't be able to render the colors properly so your whole comparison for us is moot (the Adobe files should look flat/muted).

Finally, and I hate to say this, but the makeup job looks terrible. Did you have pro do that? One of the problems I will take a guess at is that the makeup is a standard over-the-counter brand. Most people don't know that these brands have extra phosphors in them that make the skin tones look bluish when photographed by strobe. How many shots have you seen at parties and weddings where the women had washed out, blue faces? This is why professional makeup artists use pro brands like MAC or Joe Blasco.

Regards,
Andy Pearlman
Andy Pearlman Studio
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Re: several possibilities
Old 06-17-2005, 12:58 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Andy,

Yes I think you're right on most if not all of these points. I actually wasn't even there for this shoot, a friend shot with all three cameras. I think I answered the questions about the lights and the light modifiers above. This was done with studio flashes balanced to 5500k. Yes the exposure is not 100%. That said what you see here is so obvious and close enough to what's seen in photoshop that there's no debate. The nikon image is RED. I believe a previous poster already found the solution though - I had been stupidly setting the camera to flash icon for white balance forgetting that the on camera flash is not at 5500k and that the flash icon is balanced for that flash not studio flashes. I'm not used to not being able to dial in the white balance in degrees K (one thing that annoys me about the D70) so this really never crossed my mind until it was pointed out here. Nevertheless, thanks for your input, well stated.
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a sample
Old 06-17-2005, 01:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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According to your theory, the D70 "flash" setting should be correct for the built-in flash, and the studio flashes are warmer (redder) than that setting? In order for that to be true, I would never have to put a warming filter over the built-in flash, but I do it because its too cool - its probably more like 6000. Also, if you had set the WB to "flash", the studio strobes should also make the color be cooler: They're never on the warm side unless they've been warmed up by gel, a UV coating, or a warm light modifier or they're very old.

I think you're right the first time, your image is too pink, not too red. It needs more cyan which will add some yellow and knock down the pink, but its hard to tell with that makeup and pale skin. Just for reference, here's a recent catalog shot with studio strobes (my older unmodified Chimera, and new one with a little warming gel over the strobe head). This is completely uncorrected, straight out of my camera (except for sizing and converting to sRGB) with the WB set to "Flash" mode on the D70. Personlly I'd lighten it a tad, and some might want to take a little bit of the red out, but its not objectionable to me (I like warm skin tones), and there also may be some color variance depending on your monitor. Model is Lana Kinnear for WickedTemptations.com

I just added a version which is probably more neutral, would print better and looks more natural - a bit lighter and just a little less red, but certainly not extreme. I think mine look warmer - more yellow - than yours mostly because the model has more yellow in her skin. I still think the makeup has a lot to do with it, as well as the warmth of my strobes.



Regards,
Andy Pearlman
Andy Pearlman Studio

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Dialing in Nikon D70 WB
Old 06-17-2005, 11:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Though it is not a simple dial, WB can be set in the D70 to certain limits. See pg 51 of the owners manual. White balance can be fine tuned by pressing the WB button and rotating the sub-command dial.

Incandescent/ Fluorescent/ Direct Sunlight/ Flash/ Cloudy/ Shade
+3 2,700 K 2,700 K 4,800 K 4,800 K 5,400 K 6,700 K
+2 2,800 K 3,000 K 4,900 K 5,000 K 5,600 K 7,100 K
+1 2,900 K 3,700 K 5,000 K 5,200 K 5,800 K 7,500 K
±0 3,000 K 4,200 K 5,200 K 5,400 K 6,000 K 8,000 K
–1 3,100 K 5,000 K 5,300 K 5,600 K 6,200 K 8,400 K
–2 3,200 K 6,500 K 5,400 K 5,800 K 6,400 K 8,800 K
–3 3,300 K 7,200 K 5,600 K 6,000 K 6,600 K 9,200 K
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Re: a sample
Old 06-18-2005, 03:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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My reasoning is as follows: The color temp of the studio flashes is 5500K, Sunlight is 5500K. The on camera flash on the D70 is probalby 6000 or 6500 and thus the flash white balance icon is 6000 or 6500 (on the olympus the on camera flash is 6500). I would consider a yellow red or pink cast to the photos to be warm, while anything looking bluish to be cool. I know for a fact if I take daylight film (5500k) and use it inside with incandescent bulbs the pictuers look brown or yellow (warm). In this case the temperature of the camera setting (or film) is warmer than that of the light source and produces a warm cast. If I were to take incandescent balanced film (~3500 IIRC) and shoot in the sun (5500k) the photos look blue (cool). Thus if the camera setting (or film) is cooler than the light source the photos have a bluish or cool cast. So would it not stand to logic that if my camera is set to a higher temperature (6000-6500) than the flash equipment (5500) that I would see a warm cast and not a cool cast as in the example of using sunlight balanced film with incandescent lighting? Or did I do some sort of mental gymnastics here and get totally reversed on the thing?

By the way, believe it or not, that makeup job was done by a professional makeup artist using MAC coemetics.
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Re: Why is my Nikon D70 producing PINK pictures?
Old 06-19-2005, 10:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I could say why is the 20d shooting green/cyan and the E10 shooting blue?

I don't find any of those two closer to correct or pleasing color. I do find inconsistant exposures on all 3 as well.

Compared to these two mentioned, the D70 is caputured on the magenta side but to me it's the better color capture.

J T

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