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A question of whose rights...
Old 02-11-2003, 08:33 PM   #1 (permalink)
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As photographers, we may sometimes lose sight of how the rest of the world perceives our activities.

A news story in the Omaha (Nebraska) World-Herald has sparked a heated discussion.
It's worth reading the comments following the article.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=...8&u_sid=645018

The link to this story was posted on Glamour Models by "Bill" from Miami.
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KUDOS to the old man!!!
Old 02-12-2003, 09:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
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When I'm 74-years-old, I hope I still have the energy to photograph cheerleaders...or anything else. It's really sad because when that dude was a teen, they probably wouldn't have questioned him if he took a camera inside the lady's room. There weren't as many perverts around and there were no girly magazines or Internet to sell the images to.

If a school system decided, by virtue of the fact that I was photographing cheerleaders at a sports function, to circulate my picture throughout a network of coaches, teachers and students I would file one seriously major lawsuit against it.

Unfortunately, the time has come in human evolution when almost all behavior can be suspect. If you don't fit the profile of an airplane hijacker, you may fit one of a terrorist, a pervert, a shoplifter, or whatever. It's hard to get past the lines these days and sometimes even your ID and credentials are suspect.
 
 
Paranoia
Old 02-12-2003, 05:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I can understand both sides of the fence. I had a discussion with my wife just yesterday about something similar. I want to take pictures at my son's daycare valentine's day party. His class has kids about 4 years old. She said, "I don't know if they will allow you to take pictures or not." I said, "Why not?" Her reply, "because the other parents might not want you taking pictures of their kids." I thought that to be rediculous. What the hell am I going to do with the pictures. I am a fellow classmates parent. I want to have GOOD pictures of my son's classmates as a rememberance of these precious years. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Being a minority, I grew up around lots of prejudice over the years. Now I can't even take pictures of my darn kids because I could "potentially" use the images on a website?

Another friend of mine was told he had to sign papers (as a parent) to take pictures at a gymnastics event. Then he is told he cannot post the pictures of HIS KIDS from the event on a website.

What is the world coming to?
 
 
Copyrights and Trademarks..
Old 02-12-2003, 06:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If the old man was selling the images then He could face possible problems fromt he school districts, because the school logos and emblems are usually trademarked or copyrighted.

When shooting local games in my area I have to get permission to from both schools and the state athletic gorverning bodies. In Texas it is the UIL and in Arkansas it is the Arkansas Athletic Association. But!, that is only for me to be on the sidelines and using the images I accquire for broadcast purposes. As far as sitting in the stands, I think that it should be like most any other public place. As long as you are not making money from images taken of strangers without their knowledge, then shouldn't be any problem.

As far as shooting the kids in the classroom. The general rule that has been told to me by the school districts is that unless the childrens parents have given permission then the school will ask from me not to show faces. Mainly because the school is protecting their butt just in case an idiotic parent wants to raise cain and becomes sue happy
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Kindercare
Old 02-12-2003, 11:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Have you ever heard of Kindercare? They are a company that setup video monitoring in daycares so the parents can monitor the kids throughout the day over the Internet. Each parent is given a unique id/pw and the video is supposed to be encrypted to the client. All parents don't have to agree to have their kid on video - its just done. If you don't want the service, you don't have to pay for it but your kid is in the video anyway. I don't see how that is any different. What a world we live in... It gets "better" every year.
 
 
Re: Kindercare
Old 02-13-2003, 12:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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aw screw it! just shoot his party anyway and tell the parents you will post the images on a a site for them to download for free. Then it would be public domain and you shouldn't have any problem.

As far as the kindercare, I think that the way they go about the fee is more of equipment rental. not selling images.
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Unless he tries to sell the images for a...
Old 02-13-2003, 10:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
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...a commercial use, there's no problem here - even it makes someone 'uncomfortable'

If a person is in a public place the courts have pretty much said there is no expectation of privacy. The only legal rub is your options of what to do with the image after you have it processed. If you keep if for yourself, no problem. If you sell it to a news organization, again no problem. If you sell it for commercial use (i.e. voyeur site) then you have a problem.

To clarify some:

Suppose you're at a bike rally and you a couple riding down the main street naked. You shoot it and sell it to the AP. You are within your rights to do that and you don't need any permission from them to do so.

You can send it in to a PSA photo contest, or Pop Photo's contest, again no problem. Same with Easy Riders (though they may want to CYA with a release).

Set up a pay site and charge $9.95 a month and you're in trouble.

As far as logo information is, again, it's in a public place and there isn't much the school can do about it - even major corporations have found it's useless to try to block photos of stuff with their logo.

I think what we're seeing is a certain amount of paranoia over some of the recent hi-profiled child abductions and serial murders (some of who posed as 'glamour' photographers).

In this day and age, while I think they are over reacting, if he shows up again at a game and they try to charge him with something, I think they may find they are at a legal dead end. Unless he get's unruly when they try to remove him, then a disorderly conduct charge may stick.

Finally, what I state here applies to my own world in Wisconsin, and your milage may vary. Check the laws in your own state or local.

Joel

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