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Nikon vs Canon
Old 02-10-2005, 01:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I've recently been playing around with a Nikon D70 and a Canon 20d. Right off the bat I should mention that both had the cheapo lenses that come bundled with the camera (the canon lens seeming to be even lower quality than the Nikon). I was shocked to find that the images from the D70 seemed to have much more pleasing color tone and were much sharper in focus especially since the D70 is lacking 2 megapixels of resolution and is a much cheaper camera than the Canon. Nearly all the photos coming from the Canon looked blury. The photos were especially blury at full zoom (55mm) and at a distance of ~15-20 feet from the subject - this would correspond to a standing subject filling the full frame. I'm not sure if this is due to the low quality lenses or poor focusing ability of the camera at that distance (or both). I realize this is an extremely cheap lens I'm dealing with here but I'm still shocked at how poor the image quality is. In terms of color tone the canon is not nearly as pleasing and seems to be too cool in tone with the nikon perhaps erring on the side of being too warm.

What has your expirience with these cameras been? How much of this would be corrected by a better quality lens? With a high quality lens on both cameras would the Nikon still take a sharper picture?

Lastly, on a side note, the Canon is a CMOS censor while the Nikon is a CCD - is any of what I'm observing due to this? From what I've read CCD sensors are supposed to yield higher quality images, however I'm surprised to see that the top of the line models from both Nikon and Canon are now using CMOS image sensors - WHY?!

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Re: Nikon vs Canon
Old 02-10-2005, 03:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I can't answer all of your questions...

But I did switch from Nikon to Canon, for the L Glass...

But I was not in a bunch of $$$ to Nikon yet anyway so it was an easy change. I also liked the new cameras that Canon had on the horizon...

Nikon is a great Camera... Canon is a great camera...

But it really isn’t the camera is it... My wife can take an amazing image of my son with a 3.1 camera... But you might now want to put it on the cover of SI...

I like my 10D and like my 20D even better. Most of the problems people post about with the camera, I have not had... I hope it is user error on their part...

Anyway, long post longer... Each camera is going to have its own thing... my S2 shot a little green... whatever it is know the camera you own and make great images with it... I hope to learn something everyday with my camera or with Photoshop. It is a never ending process wink wink…

Chris
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Re: Nikon vs Canon
Old 02-10-2005, 03:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Recently bought the 20d and I also have not had any problems with it. Bought a couple lenses but the one that came packaged has produced very clear shots. I have a friend that just bought the D70 about 3 weeks ago and he has also caught some awesome shots. I have not downloaded or installed any of the firmware upgrades yet (there has been one out since I bought the camera) but I have not had any problems yet either. Both are great cameras I think.
Jim
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Any suggestions on the firmware, should I download them as a standard procedure any time a new one comes out?
 
 
Re: Nikon vs Canon
Old 02-10-2005, 03:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Does the Nikon have more in camera sharpening? did you shoot RAW and view each after conversion on your PC? What focus point were you using? Are they the same exact shot using a tripod? There are lots of things that determine the sharpness of the image. Also viewing images on the PC is the equivalent of viewing a poster size print. Nikon and Canon are both great companies and those cameras have people who love em and people who don't. Get what ever you are more comfortable with.
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Re: Nikon vs Canon
Old 02-10-2005, 05:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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the title to this post i believe should read something more like "photographer vs equipment". i am a huge believer in; know your equipment...know your equipment...know your equipment. if you are shooting and you know you are soft at the long end of a certain piece of glass then fix it.

as to the rest. both are prosumer pieces of equipment and of a very high quality. i personally am a 20d owner with L glass so i cant comment on the kit lens, 20d combo.

but, i can comment on there are photographers, many many of them creating absolutely beautiful work, work that i will never even dream of, with technically less then the latest and supposed "greatest" equipment.

the nikon vs canon debate should be left to the newbies/immature/amatuers that just own a SLR to impress girls into thinking they are a legit photographer.



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Re: Nikon vs Canon
Old 02-10-2005, 06:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I am a Nikon fan and own a D-100 and I have the 18-70DX. But, I know the Canon is excellent also. However, even though the 18-70 is a "kit" lens, it is an excellent lens. You will find it hard to find any bad press or reviews on it. It's sharp, excellent color and contrast, and the AFS is fast. I have found nothing for less than $400 to compare with it. And with features like the 1/500 flash sync of the D70 it's a great combination I have used both the 17-35 2.8 and the 18-70 and except for more barrel distortion on the wide end, the image quality is very close. Good luck.
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Eye of the Beholder
Old 02-10-2005, 06:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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A few observations. First, the crappiest body can have a GREAT sensor in it and vice versa. One thing to remember about the D-70 or DigiRebel -- one of these days somewhere North of 30,000 frames they're going to give it up. JT had 78,000 on his S1 when it went -- but it's gonna go.
Second, think of the purchase as an investment in a system -- not as bagging the greatest technology. The bodies change -- the "L" series lenses will be there forever. Until Canon changes the mount... Either way, invest in the lenses and not in the body -- unless the body does something that you need/want OR you can just plain afford it.
Third, generally speaking a CCD is going to be sharper than CMOS. Canon has done an AMAZING thing to produce such a great sensor out of CMOS. It's all in what you like. Some people like what they get from a Canon. Some people (like me) like what they get from a Fuji. Nikon doesn't make their own sensors (at least not all of them) so that depends on the sensor manufacturers.
Last -- you asked why CMOS instead of CCD? COST. The production cost of a CMOS sensor -- once the research is done -- is MUCH lower than CCD. That's why the consumer digicams are CMOS. That's why the price curve is where it is. Have you ever noticed that Nikon and Fuji will come out with cameras at a certain price level, then Canon comes out to compete and the prices go down? As a Fuji owner I appreciate Canon putting the competition in the market -- otherwise we'd still be paying $4,000 for a Fuji S1.

Bob

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and then there are lemons
Old 02-10-2005, 11:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm a long-time Nikon guy, very happy with my D70, but a lot of my pro friends have switched to Canon. Two with the Canon 10D had focusing problems that were determined to be factory defects, which were fixed by Canon. One them subsequently bought a 20D. He lives in Bangkok, Thailand and recently sent me this note after much anguish over imperfect images with his new camera (and he is as technical a geek as I know):

"Also, in other news, the Canon 20D I got last month was a complete lemon
and had major problems with all systems, focus, exposure and color. The
engineers at Cano service confirmed this. Canon replaced the whole
camera and the new one works OK. Am really satisfied by Canon customer
service but mystified how they can have so many technical problems. Of
course then there is the "me" factor. If there is a bad one in the
country, I will get it."

Take that for whatever you want, but sometimes it IS the equipment.

Regards,
Andy Pearlman
Andy Pearlman Studio

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Re: Nikon vs Canon
Old 02-11-2005, 12:03 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I find the Canon 20D to produce ultra sharp photos even with less expensive glass. Either you had a bad Canon 20D, which is possible for any product, or you were not doing something properly. For example, I've seen people accidently set the lens to manual focus, and then they complain about blurry photos, when naturally there is no focusing taking place. If you read the major reviewers comments on the D70 and the 20D, you'll see that the quality of the photos for both are top quality, although all the reviews I've seen seem to give a slight edge to the 20D photos. I've used my 20D with many different lens, and have found that it focuses ultra fast. I have found the color tones of the 20D to be great. Again, to achieve this, you must set the camera properly.
Check out the reviews and see what you think?



Cheers,
rfs
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Re: Nikon vs Canon
Old 02-11-2005, 12:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Ford or Chevry? Mercedes of BMW? All excellent. All produce lemons on occasion. I recall the guy who complained that his brand new Leica ruined his honeymoon photos, only to find out he loaded all of his film backwards. Both Canon and Nikon produce excellent products and both occasionally produce lemons.

The 10D I purchased a bit over a years ago consistently produces crystal sharp 16x20 prints.
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