Lens Diaries Go Now
Glamour, Beauty, Nude, Models, Photographers

*    |  Register  


 
Go Back   Garage Glamour™ > Garage Glamour™ Main Forums > Tech Talk Forum
 

Tech Talk Forum Photography & Technical Related Only!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Just starting a fight ... Canon v. Nikon (and Pentax!) ... and GO!
Old 01-04-2005, 04:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Member GG#: 37265
Location: Austin
Posts: 189
Comments: 0

DarkLeather is offline IP: 65.67.62.8
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

First and foremost, I apologise in advance for this thread, but I don't see any way around this except to ask...
The fates have just smiled on me a little, and I am suddenly in possession of a little money. Some portion of this is going into a new digital camera. Some of you may recall that I am shooting with a 2MP Olympus at the moment. I love the thing, and the optics are startlingly good on it, but I really feel like I've hit the limits of my equipment...
I've read everything I could find on DSLRs; here, DPReview, etc... I'm comfortable with the "bottom" of the DSLR market, and confident that any of the usual suspects will work fine for me. (I'm looking at the digital rebel, the D70, and the *ist DS.) I don't honestly see that any of them have any particular overall advantages as far as performance, image quality, or build quality, at least as far as my needs are concerned.
Pragmaticly, I should probably go with the Pentax, since I already have a fair amount of good Pentax glass, but it doesn't really feel like a "real" camera to me. I'm telling myself that I'll be happy with the lighter body after a few hours of shooting, but I'd hate to buy it and be vaguely dissatisfied with it every time I use it.
On the other hand, the Nikon feels most like a "real" camera to me, (I shoot with a Pentax K-1000 for film, and love the feel of the metal body) but I'm not sure that's a good enough reason to spend an extra 2-300 dollars.
All three felt fine in my hand, I could get all of them to do more or less what I wanted in short order at the counter, but I didn't come away with a "must have" feeling about any of them. Arrrgh! I am reduced to being the dumb-ass poster everybody hates, asking "what do I buy?" Sigh

The actual question I am asking y'all is; if you own one of these cameras, what do you most dislike about it?
--Sam
  View Public Profile Send a private message to DarkLeather Visit DarkLeather's homepage! Find More Posts by DarkLeather
 
You\'re asking the right question!
Old 01-04-2005, 04:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35195
Posts: 440
Comments: 0

rjwarren is offline IP: 24.160.125.86
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Sam

As my friend Jerry Brown likes to say "It's not the camera -- it's the system." You can't compare the features of the D70 vs the Digi Rebel, for example. There will be a Digi Rebel 2 and a D80 (or 75 or 90 -- whatever) this year. Here are some things to compare. 1) Lens systems -- both vendors have consumer and pro lenses -- which will cost you more and are there features that you want / need / like. 2) Accessories -- do both systems have remote releases and battery grips, etc. 3) Technology -- here's the REAL crystal ball subject. Canon has really invested LOTS of money in prefecting their sensors. Nikon has been buying other people's sensors and they seem to be committed to the APS-sized sensor.

The reason you look at the system is simple -- you buy one body and a lens today. Tomorrow it's a couple more lenses, then some dedicated accessories... Pretty soon the body dies or a new spiffy upgrade comes along (ex: 10D to 20D). You're not going to sell out all your other gear just to get a different body -- only to sell it out again when the other guy has the newset mousetrap. THAT could get expensive.

I'll throw you a curve ball -- Olympus. The 4/3 standards have lots of great ideas -- and I believe that the ratio of the sensor DOES make a difference in the image captured and delivered. Olympus has the E1 for the high end and hte E300 for the low end. So -- take a careful look at that before you invest.

Whatever you buy this year will be obsolete next year and die within 3 years. So plan your path -- don't just buy a body.

Bob

Speaking of bodies:


  View Public Profile Send a private message to rjwarren Visit rjwarren's homepage! Find More Posts by rjwarren
 
Re: Just starting a fight ... Canon v. Nikon (and Pentax!) ... and GO!
Old 01-04-2005, 04:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member GG#: 39173
Location: Hermitage/Nashville
Posts: 363
Comments: 0
Send a message via Yahoo to LarryAB

LarryAB is offline IP: 68.52.144.79
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I just want to point out something you kind of pass over quickly in your post: You already have some "good" pentax glass. I don't know anything about pentax lenses, but if they're any good and they're compatable with the *ist, I'd think that would weigh heavily in favor of the Pentax unless you really don't like that camera. It's not just a camera you're buying, but a ticket into a system that requires an investment in lenses. Don't mean to point out the obvious or be a wiseass, as you're obviously familiar with SLR systems.

Having said that, and being a Canon guy, I can tell you that the reason I didn't buy the Rebel was the lack of flash exposure compensation and the tiny 4-frame buffer. My hot shoe flash unit is a 420EX which has no controls of it's own, and I sometimes shoot my nephew's football games. Shooting sports just about requires (for me) some amount of shooting buffer and 4 frames ain't gonna get it.

Just my $0.02.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to LarryAB Visit LarryAB's homepage! Find More Posts by LarryAB
 
Not starting a fight, but sharing opinions :)
Old 01-04-2005, 05:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
Free Member

 
JasonNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35318
Location: Denville
Posts: 363
Comments: 0

JasonNJ is offline IP: 208.222.116.86
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

OK, first off, I appreciate the fact you are looking for more what people do not like about a camera versus what they like. Its easy to follow praise, but a true sign of research to go head first into the negatives.

Pentax, Olympus, Konica Minolta. Right now those are three companies diving into Digital SLRS. The construction of the bodies, designs, are for all purposes the first run (lee-way on the Olympus designs, but lets face facts, E1 not like an E10-E20 design, and E-300 certainly not the E1) of a digital camera and mistakes are there to fix.

Those aforementioned bodies feel awkward and accessories and lenses are hard to come by at a reasonable rate and availability. Some cases can be made for them whether it be the 4/3 sensor on the olympus of the Anti Shake on the Maxxum digital SLR,.... Pentax i have found no good for.

Here is some $0.02 of praise, ridicule, perhaps my opinion. 1: I don't want a sensor that moves (Konica Minolta), and 4/3 system, I am not pumping out 8x10's nor do I care to and quite frankly, never warmed up to the Olympus digital SLR (not saying its a bad camera system, others have used them and love them.... just.... not me.... then again, never really gave them a chance, love my S2)

Look into Canon, Nikon, Fuji..... if you have the bling bling, heck Kodak DCS Pro (Nikon only, the Canon is really bad.... and honestly....this camera is a studio only camera, use it for nothing else, hence, grey area).

Each camera we can make cases for, but the Digital Rebel, 20d, 1d/1ds Mark II's, D70, D2h, D2x, and S2/S3 are all fine digital SLR cameras. Made from companies in it since the beginning and have a solid construction and have things out there to play with.

Full frame versus non full frame, well one hand no focal magnification, but that doesn't mean the sensors are better. From a nikon stance its the fact there sensors don't slightly blur out in the full frame realm, of course canon isn't going to say there does or does not. Its a push pull, fact is, aspect ratio is there of 35mm and quality can be found on both.

To not go overboard and not sell yourself short, I would suggest you look into either the Canon 20D, Nikon D70, or the Fuji S2/S3 depending on money you are looking to spend. I favor Canon glass (L series 2.8 with IS, can't go wrong) over the Nikon VR but both are good and lets not forget the dark horse in the running the Tamron DI series.

It comes down to what feels right with you and you alone. Then look at what you can spend overall and factor lenses, flash's, work within your budget. There will always be something better our there for you in a few months to a year, but it matters is you want the camera now, whats there and does it work for you.

Anything I can do to confuse you further, lemme know

Glorified Unique Photo Counterboy
jasone@uniquephoto.com


  View Public Profile Send a private message to JasonNJ Visit JasonNJ's homepage! Find More Posts by JasonNJ
 
Re: Just starting a fight ... Canon v. Nikon (and Pentax!) ... and GO!
Old 01-04-2005, 06:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
Lifetime Amateur

 
jford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35246
Location: Indiana, PA
Posts: 2,730
Comments: 7

jford is offline IP: 68.162.169.79
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Sam -

I too have shot Pentax (for about 25 years) and have been debating about which digital system to get. My investment in glass is pretty small - four lenses, all of which are fully manual - but two of them are quite good, insofar as my film experience lets me judge.

I haven't held ANY digital SLR. Feel is an important factor.

However, the shots I've seen from the *ist seem soft vis-a-vis the D300 and D-70, and I KNOW that Pentax glass isn't THAT much poorer than the other two. Pentax seems to have poorer in-camera image processing.

I feel a strong loyalty to Pentax, but I really think they've dropped the ball, digitally. Personally, I'm leaning towards the Nikon system. (Not that I really know anything, I hasten to add.)
  View Public Profile Send a private message to jford Visit jford's homepage! Find More Posts by jford
 
Re: Just starting a fight ... Canon v. Nikon (and Pentax!) ... and GO!
Old 01-04-2005, 06:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35218
Location: Metro Atlanta
Posts: 717
Comments: 0

Doug_Lester is offline IP: 66.245.113.191
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Every camera you mentioned will do the job for you. All will show you a dramatic improvement over the one you are using now. Well, I can't speak from experience about the Pentax as I have not shot with one since the K-1000 I bought new. Actually the only digital camera I have personal experience with is the 10D. As for what I disike about it, well, nothing. I love that little sucker! Quality prints of 20x30 have been no problem at all. In fact they are so good I'm about to get rid of my darkroom, the one I've maintained since about 1968. I have not been in there for more than a year.

But with that said, as previous threads have shown some dislike the 10D intensely. For example, some truly hate its viewfinder, but I've had absolutely no complaint about it. Several have complained about the difficulty of getting dust off of the sensor. I once had a dust problem, highly visible curlycues and large blobs, clearly visible on the images. I took the lens off, turned the body upside down, shook it and the dust went away. My point is that there are is no universally loved camera. Someone will find serious fault with all of them. Our hands, our photographic eyes and our personal needs and practices are just too subjective. What's 'right' for me may be a disaster for you, and vice versa.

In the days when I was teaching photography, which camera to buy was a universal question, just as it is now. During the first half hour of the first day of class, someone always asked what camera do you use?". Once that question was voiced out loud, I could see at least 1/3 of the class pull out pens and paper. I never answered, at least not then, instead always suggested the students visit more than one camera store, liste4n to the sales spiel and handle each camera they were considering. See which 'felt best' in their hands and which either had or lacked features which were important to individual.

Things are a little different in this digital age, but not that much. Now instead of just visiting camera stores and handling them, I suggest they rent one for a weekend and try it out. Rent a different camera each weekend for a month and you'll quickly learn which is best for you and your own shooting style.

My place
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Doug_Lester Visit Doug_Lester's homepage! Find More Posts by Doug_Lester
 
Re: Just starting a fight ... Canon v. Nikon (and Pentax!) ... and GO!
Old 01-04-2005, 06:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Member GG#: 39377
Location: Tampa
Posts: 420
Comments: 0

photopro34 is offline IP: 65.35.168.235
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Boy...this is a can of worms...lol. I know this for sure...I hate my nikon d-100. After having it for 7 mths and shooting intensley with it...I can tell you that it is designed to have the filles "built out" in PS...might as well shoot raw.. I have 1200 bucks in glass so I am switching to the s2 pro..the s3 is wwwaay out of my budget. I do know this...everyones work that I truely admire..save Jeff Black, shoots canon. Jeff shoots the s2. I not seen an d-100 image that I TRUELY love. My 2 cents...oh...and I hear Nikon is comming out with a d-200. Wouldnt touch it to save the world...matter fact...I will probably never buy a nikon body (save film) again.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to photopro34 Find More Posts by photopro34
 
Re: Just starting a fight ... Canon v. Nikon (and Pentax!) ... and GO!
Old 01-04-2005, 07:37 PM   #8 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
DavidMoyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Member GG#: 36994
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 1,802
Comments: 0

DavidMoyle is offline IP: 63.205.143.140
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

nutinn like pullin the pin on a grenade and throwin it into a crowded room and yellin "fire in the hole" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
  View Public Profile Send a private message to DavidMoyle Visit DavidMoyle's homepage! Find More Posts by DavidMoyle
 
Re: Just starting a fight ... Canon v. Nikon (and Pentax!) ... and GO!
Old 01-04-2005, 10:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
Free Member

 
JonScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member GG#: 37850
Location: Portland | Dallas
Posts: 835
Comments: 1
My Mood:
Send a message via MSN to JonScott Send a message via Yahoo to JonScott

JonScott is offline IP: 4.15.113.184
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

The only things I don't like about my S2 are the slow frame rate and lack of a vertical release.

Other than that, I love it - it's a tall-bodied camera, so there's plenty of room for my club-like hands to hold and shoot it comfortably. Plus, the main controls are right under your fingertips.

The "system" approach is certainly valid, but let's not discount at all one of the things that you mentioned - the feel.

I like to say that shooting a camera is very much like shooting a pistol - if you can't hold it comfortably, you can't shoot it.

Happy hunting!
  View Public Profile Send a private message to JonScott Visit JonScott's homepage! Find More Posts by JonScott
 
Re: You\'re asking the right question!
Old 01-04-2005, 11:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Member GG#: 40476
Location: Peachtree City
Posts: 60
Comments: 0

RM_Drake is offline IP: 66.245.84.160
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

A man was driving down a country road in the dead of winter. All of a sudden the pavement stopped and it continued as a dirt road. That particular road was used by logging trucks to haul logs to the mill. Several days earlier there had been a hard rain, turning the dirt road to mud. The heavy truck traffic had made several deep ruts in that muddy road, then a hard freeze set in that hardened the mud into frozen ruts. Someone put a handwritten sign where the pavement ended. It said, "Choose your rut carefully. You'll be in it for the next 10 miles."

Choose your system carefully. You'll be in it for the next 10 years. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] --Randy

P.S. My "rut" is named Canon.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to RM_Drake Visit RM_Drake's homepage! Find More Posts by RM_Drake
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nikon D200 and Sigma lenses. Driftwood Tech Talk Forum 9 01-05-2006 06:08 PM
Nikon D2x rumor... JohnPaul Tech Talk Forum 9 09-12-2004 09:42 PM

Sponsors


New To Site? Need Help? Photographer & Model Links
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:41 AM.

© 1999-2017 Garage Glamour™




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94