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Suggestions please...
Old 12-09-2004, 06:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I have a customer that I will be shooting next week. The shoot is lingerie/glamour type stuff for her husband for Christmas. She asked about buying all the negatives from me. Well, I shoot digital so it would have to be a CD. Problem is, I have no clue how to price this. The images will be shot at 6mp so, she will have a decent size that she can have printed. I usually shoot RAW, but think JPG might be easier on this. Can just unload the cf card and burn a CD. Of course, I will keep all files too and will not sign over rights.

I have no problem selling all the images, but for how much??? Should I base it on how many images total? I am guessing around 100 images total.

Any help or guidance is much appreciated. Thanks to all in advance.
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Re: Suggestions please...
Old 12-09-2004, 06:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I have a min. amount of loose prints that need to be purchased prior to the client being able to purchase their CD. If my wedding clients spend $2000.00 on their wedding package they can have their CD with full size files for $300.00

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Re: Suggestions please...
Old 12-09-2004, 06:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
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IMHO
Firts, I would edit down the number of images she gets on the CD to the best of the best. She can sit down with you and view them all, and then she can decide. Or, you can decide for her, give what you feel are the best. Then when you're down to the best 10-20, you can price them. I also assume you will edit them in PS. You should be paid for that time also. I'd charge your normal print charge, but discount them due to the fact that you won't have any printing costs. As for the rights... let's be honest. Once you give her the CD, you'll have very little if any control over what she does with the images. Good Luck!

VPsteve
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Re: Suggestions please...
Old 12-09-2004, 07:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Jason

It sounds like she wants to "buy all the negatives" so that no one else -- including you -- have any copies of sexy pictures of her. Just guessing -- but the way you phrased it that's what I'd think.

This wouldn't be priced like an advertising copyright buyout. That's pretty expensive. With a copyright buyout they're buying out all your future advertising profits and ability to resell as stock. They probably want the image to be associated with their product and no other.

When I do a client shoot for personal portrait work, I have no expectation that I'll ever do anything but sell the client prints. I think that's standard practice -- and there are plenty of precidents for photographers being sued for using portrait clients as stock without a commerical advertising release. I price the session so that if they never buy any prints, I'm OK. I provide a CD from the session (rather than a print) and usually end up selling some prints. They don't have a copyright release, so they can't print the images professionally or sell them for advertising.

I'd ask the client what she wants when she's "buying the negatives." If she just wants to keep her image private, pick a price that's based on the money you might have had from her in prints. She'll probably pay that price -- and this way it's guarenteed income for you. Do you usually deliver a CD with the session? If not just take the RAW images and throw them on the CD. If you do, then create a RAW folder on the CD and throw everything on it as is. No use using your time to correct every image if you'll never use them. And there's no requirement to deliver jpgs -- unless she's willing to pay for all that time.

Bob
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Don\'t do it.
Old 12-09-2004, 08:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Don't ever sell your negatives/Raw files. Period.
Do even think about it.
Don't even consider it.
The answer is no.
No!
No!
No!
Do not open that door "Sam I Am."
I do not like Green Eggs And Ham.
Not even for a million dollars.
Well, maybe a million.
These are your business records, your original files.
Treat them as such.
Never ever 'ho your work.
Greg.




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Re: Suggestions please...
Old 12-09-2004, 09:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I've been charging a "studio fee" for private sessions. It's been $100 for a maximum 2 hour session. $50 each additional half hour. I tell them that includes studio time, light and media, a CD of COPYRIGHTED images, and I give them the whole session, and in RAW. Then, they pay for me, photographer fee, that's been $200, and tell them that will cover the whole session, up to four hours. Photoshop is charged at $10 a pic delivered within 3 days(though it's usually same day or next). Mind you, I'm at this a year, and had no benchmark on which to base my rates. Quoting this rate I've had 5 sessions, all for $350 total, lasted two hours, they picked 5 PSd prints, and everyone, INCLUDING myself, felt appropriately compensated for their investment. I don't know if these prices are right or wrong, I've had a couple photographers chastise me for selling out the art on the cheap, A married couple said that was twice what they were quoted by another photographer (I told them I hoped they still had his number... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] they didn't like that... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]and we didn't work together). The majority felt it was fair. Take this info with a grain of salt, and GOOD LUCK and much success.

This is Alectra, lovely young lady. We shot this in October, and not wanting to drag buggy leaves into my studio and drape them over a pretty girl, I went up on a ladder and harvested them from my maple tree. I really liked this shoot.
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Re: Suggestions please...
Old 12-09-2004, 11:50 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone for the input. I emailed her back about this and gave her some approximate prices. I basically made it expensive enough that I would be happy if she paid it, but if she chooses to just buy prints from me I will make enough from that. And, I already know that she is very well off, so I'm kinda expecting her to pay the big price tag.(hmmm, more camera goodies!)
Either way, I will still have all original RAW files from the shoot. With shoots like this, my only intentions for using the images would be when showing my portfolio to a prospective commercial client. Even then, I have enough other images that I don't have to show these.

I know there's some people that may not agree with this, but I'm comfortable with it.

I'll post again when I hear back from her.
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Re: Suggestions please...
Old 12-10-2004, 12:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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[ QUOTE ]
With shoots like this, my only intentions for using the images would be when showing my portfolio to a prospective commercial client. Even then, I have enough other images that I don't have to show these.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is a very slippery slope. I feel that if it is a paid shoot, then you really have no right to show the pictures to anyone else, commercial or otherwise. If word ever got back to her that you showed the photos to anyone else, your reputation would be mud, plus possibly in legal trouble. You can think that there is no possiblity of her finding out but it could happen, i.e. 6 degree's of seperation.
Especially since she trusted that the images would not be seen by anyone else. Take the shoot for what it is, an opportunity to sell your work. Burn a backup of the shoot and put it away in a safe place if she wants reprints, and show them to no one.

Just because we shoot the images, doesn't mean we can do as we please.


You wouldn't want to turn on the Discovery channel and see your last prostrate exam on the big screen.

Chris Graphic Images
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Re: Suggestions please...
Old 12-10-2004, 12:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The thing is... In general, I am a portrait photographer. I have a portrait studio and that's how I make a living. Based on what you're saying, I wouldn't be able to show any portrait to other potential customers. Customers pay for my service of shooting and pay for prints. They don't pay for privacy rights or anything else. I even have a notice posted in the studio that basically states: Any images can possibly be used for advertising purposes for the studio unless a previous agreement has been made. In the past 2 years, I have had maybe 2 people want a privacy statement signed, which I have no problem doing. Either way, I see no need to show these types of images for general advertising purposes.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone, I just want to try to clarify as best I can.
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Re: Suggestions please...
Old 12-10-2004, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I can understand your point on having the sign in the studio. The images she is wanting are not your standard portrait. She had inquired about buying all of the images for what you believe is for privacy issues, so I would treat it as such. I have done shoots in which my clients "know" that their images will never be used anywhere else. In the case that I find an image that I want to add to my portfolio I simply ask if it is ok to do so and get a release saying such. If you would want to use one of the photos of her in your studio or portfolio, then you should explicitly ask.

The fact of having a sign up will not hinder her husband from coming in and beating the crap out of you. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Back to your original question, price the CD at a price that you are comfortable working for. Chances are that if they are personal pictures that she will not go and get them reprinted and that she will buy the prints from you. She is more than likely just wanting to have a keepsake for a later date, in which she can look back and see how beautiful she was then. Plus having the files in case something happens to the original prints.

I shot a wedding and found myself in the same place, print orders were placed and then they wanted a cd. Someone wise told me that wedding pictures are only valuable until the divorce. I took the spirit of that and sold the cd for $350.

Chris Graphic Images
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