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Photoshop Color Management
Old 09-05-2004, 09:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I use a Canon 10D and have set it to Adobe RGB and get great results but when I save a picture for the web I loose alot of color (photos turn Greenish) do I need to convert back to CMK and how do I do that???
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Re: Photoshop Color Management
Old 09-05-2004, 10:13 PM   #2 (permalink)
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[ QUOTE ]
I use a Canon 10D and have set it to Adobe RGB and get great results but when I save a picture for the web I loose alot of color

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll need to convert the image to sRGB BEFORE "Save for Web"... AdobeRGB has a much wider range of colors available than web browsers, who need images set to sRGB to approximate what you're seeing on your monitor.

So, to recap.. your workflow would be...

1. Do all the things you want to your image
2. SAVE a final copy of the image in Adobe RGB
3. Convert the image to sRGB:
IMAGE > MODE > Assign Profile > sRGB (bottom choice)
4. Reduce size / resolution for web (i.e. 500 pixels horiz, 72 dpi)
5. FILE > SAVE FOR WEB

That help?

Wayne
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Re: Photoshop Color Management
Old 09-05-2004, 10:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Calibrate, Calibrate, Calibrate.
Calibrate your camera.
Calibrate your monitor.
If you are using ICC profiles, then save them
for consistancy.
If you are using photoshop, then you have
image ready, and you can prepare your images
for the web. Set up a profile in image ready.
After that, you can batch process your images.
I calibrate my monitor and camera to capture images
at 56k, ( approximate daylight), and 45k, (approx sunset).
I expose for CMYK, which is generally set at 56k.
CMYK is for printing.
I do plenty of pre-press so color from image capture
to the press or motion pictures have to be consistent.

Greg.

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Re: Photoshop Color Management
Old 09-05-2004, 10:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanks That is what I needed worked fine
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Re: Photoshop Color Management
Old 09-06-2004, 11:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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While your answer is correct, the reason isn't. The browsers are more than capable of displaying the colors. The reason they don't display them correctly is because PC applications, in general, are not color profile aware. So IE just assumes if its a JPG its got to be a sRGB color space image. So the actual embedded color space is completely ignored. However, on a MAC all the applications are color space aware since its built into the OS (mostly). So on a MAC the image would look completely fine regardless of which color space is embedded. Its only our dumb PCs that have the problem.

 
 
Reasons behind Re: Photoshop Color Management
Old 09-06-2004, 03:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hackman,

[ QUOTE ]
So the actual embedded color space is completely ignored

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes it's better to say "yes, it's a fish" than to go into a complete oration of the differences between one species and another. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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I teach Color Management
Old 09-06-2004, 03:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I teach Color Management and Photo Retouching at a couple of workshops so I tend to give more information on these topics than I normally would others. And since users on Macs might not know this already, I always post the differences between the two in case someone searches the forums for answers.

 
 
No, No, No...do not assign...
Old 09-10-2004, 09:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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[ QUOTE ]
3. Convert the image to sRGB:
IMAGE > MODE > Assign Profile > sRGB (bottom choice)
4. Reduce size / resolution for web (i.e. 500 pixels horiz, 72 dpi)
5. FILE > SAVE FOR WEB


[/ QUOTE ]

Wayne,

Woah...you don't assign sRGB to an image that is in Adobe 1998 or another color space in this situation--save assigning when you "import" an image that is not the same as your "working" color space, otherwise you will normally change the colors right there and they will be off--you CONVERT to sRGB color space, then "save for web" then after saving this "new" jpg for the web, you go and do a "Command Z" for Mac and I believe it's "Control Z" for Windows machines (note: they are all "PC's" or personal computers.) You do not save the original back with your conversion, as going back and forth in color profiles will cause artifacts in an image.

Here is the workflow I use:

1. I shoot in Adobe 1998 color space on my Olympus E-1 system.
2. I work in Adobe 1998 color (working) space in Adobe Photoshop.
3. I work on a "copy" of my original image, always archiving the original and a copy of the original archive too.
4. I resize the image for the proper use, such as for the web at 550 pixels longest side at 72 "ppi" not "dpi" resolution.
5. I then go to "Image>>Mode>>Convert to Profile>>then change "Destination Space" profile to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 (pull down menu in new window)
6. I then do a "Save for Web" under menu tab "File."
7. New window launches, select the appropriate jpg "quality" compression, usually between 35 to 70 %, based on artifacting of the original image and purpose of use, the higher the number, the better the quality and less jpg artifacting.
8. After I've saved for web, I then go back to the image I just changed the profile on and either do an "undo" or "Command Z" (in a Mac, Windows Contorl Z), or go the history pallete and delete the profile conversion step, then I save that copy as a working "tiff" file, not a jpg. Each time you open and close a jpg file and make a change and save it, you build artifacts in an image--so I only save to jpg when needed.

For others reading on Color Management and Save for Web: The main reason you "save for web" and not do a "save," as they are both jpg's from Adobe Photoshop, is that the "save for web" jpg will use a 216 color pallet and the "save" will use a 256 color pallet. You use the 216 color pallet as it's "cross-platform" for most browsers--it has nothing to do with sRGB, Adobe made it default to the sRGB profile as that is "old" but common technology way before version 4 of the ICC profiles.

The color profile, or ICC profile, has nothing to do with jpg compression or any other compression. ICC profiles are merely "text" (.txt) files that are like "receipes" for your hardware and software to use to "interpret" the way we see or capture color via that input or output device. Profiles always work in pairs, you must always have a source and a destination. Your monitor is the destination when you open/import an image into Photoshop, your destination is "the web" when you "save for the web." The largest denominator for computer monitors on the web, because most devices by default are set at sRGB, is in fact sRGB.

Adobe got smart, and incorporated this to "save for the web" function. In fact, brand new cameras, even the high-end ones are set at sRGB by the factory, as most folks don't know color management, as it's new, so the "industry" goes with the profile space less to cause "phone calls for tech support." They know, those that know will change it and that's why the best digital cameras allow you to go into the menu and change to Adobe RGB 1998.

Thus you "save for web" so you don't have a file capable of up to 16.7 million colors (approx), instead you deal with 216 colors to the power of 3 (216 shades of Red x 216 shades of Green x 216 shades of Blue) which equals to approx. 10 million colors). You also strip the file of the "Exif data" on a "save for web" jpg, and eliminate the "icon preview" found in most "save" jpg's. This "save for web" can cut a file size in 20% to 80% or more, depending on the image and the "quality" chosen in the save for web dialogue box.

That is one other benefit of "save for web," in the "save" mode you can only chose a tolerance value of 1 through 12, whereas in "save for web" you can choose in exact increments of compression from one to 100 percent of the jpg algorithims. Big difference in files sizes.

The reason we have color management is that image devices of any kind, capture or output, "do color differently." It's all based on numbers (ICC profiles). Color management requires a source and a destination profile to be effective, however, even if you practice the above, the key to good color management is qualifying and optimizing devices (auditing and configuration), calibration, characterization and verification.

I hope that helps. Thanks, rg sends!
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Re: No, No, No...do not assign...
Old 09-11-2004, 06:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
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rolando,

You're correct... I made a mistake in bouncing back and forth between screens trying to get the keystrokes and menu thingies correct...

What I said was:

1. Do all the things you want to your image
2. SAVE a final copy of the image in Adobe RGB
3. Convert the image to sRGB:
IMAGE > MODE > Assign Profile > sRGB (bottom choice)
4. Reduce size / resolution for web (i.e. 500 pixels horiz, 72 dpi)
5. FILE > SAVE FOR WEB


and number 4, should say IMAGE > MODE > Convert > sRGB (bottom choice)

just a little word different. Mea culpa!

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