Lens Diaries Go Now
Glamour, Beauty, Nude, Models, Photographers

*    |  Register  


 
Go Back   Garage Glamour™ > Garage Glamour™ Main Forums > Tech Talk Forum
 

Tech Talk Forum Photography & Technical Related Only!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
\"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-20-2004, 06:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Member GG#: 35723
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 474
Comments: 0

Dman65 is offline IP: 63.243.17.130
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

A couple of months ago I posted an image to get a critique and one of the comments was to possibly use flash to overpower the sun and make the model stand out. I didn't inquire about it further at that point because I was working on getting my manual fill flash technique down and wanted to do that before getting too involved in learning something else.

Now I would like to look into this, but I am not really sure what it means. Can anyone tell me how to go about overpowering the sun with flash and what the results look like?

The flash equipment I have available for outdoor work are:
4 Vivitar 283s
1 Sunpak 120J
1 Norman 200B

I guess I could use my Novatron 500WS kit or my two Alien Bees AB800s outside if there is a power outlet nearby.

Thanks for the help.

Daryl
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Dman65 Find More Posts by Dman65
 
Re: \"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-20-2004, 03:59 PM   #2 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
n5wd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Member GG#: 37369
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 636
Comments: 0

n5wd is offline IP: 68.113.203.221
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone tell me how to go about overpowering the sun with flash and what the results look like?


[/ QUOTE ]

Daryl,

I can't find one to use as an example right now (just cleaned up before installing the new 120GB secondary drive).. but...

Let's say that you take a light meter reading off a gray card that she was holding facing the camera, and it reads 1/160 @ f11 for your particular film speed.

If you bring in a flash and meter it so that the flash image would be normally exposed as 1/160th (just happens to be the max flash sync speed of my D100) @ f16, then the background, which was normally exposed at f11, would be one stop underexposed at f16, thus darker. Bring the flash even closer (or boost the power output) till you get a proper exposure on the model at f22, and the background would then be 2 stops darker than normal.

Basically, then, you're increasing the light from the flash to the point where it becomes the controlling factor in the exposure of the model, not the sunlight.

That make sense?

Wayne
  View Public Profile Send a private message to n5wd Visit n5wd's homepage! Find More Posts by n5wd
 
Re: \"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-20-2004, 04:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
LivingINDaytona

 
JaysonFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35280
Location: Daytona Beach. Fl.
Posts: 741
Comments: 0
Send a message via AIM to JaysonFromMaine Send a message via Yahoo to JaysonFromMaine

JaysonFromMaine is offline IP: 165.121.137.218
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

get a deep cycle marine battery ( the optimus bluetop i am looking at will give me 900 shots) .. a decent charger.. and a good inverter.... better then a gas generater ..and no need to worry about power
  View Public Profile Send a private message to JaysonFromMaine Visit JaysonFromMaine's homepage! Find More Posts by JaysonFromMaine
 
Re: \"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-20-2004, 09:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
Oddly Irritating

 
ErnieR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35404
Location: Paragould
Posts: 260
Comments: 2

ErnieR is offline IP: 68.92.70.163
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Daryl, they've pretty much covered the topic but you want to be able to make the sky dark using a strobe.


That's the sun in the upper right corner. I was using an Elinchrom Ranger 1100 wattsecond battery powered strobe so that I could shoot right into the sun and get blue sky. I could have gone a couple more stops and really darkened it up but I didn't.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to ErnieR Visit ErnieR's homepage! Find More Posts by ErnieR
 
Re: \"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-21-2004, 08:20 AM   #5 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Member GG#: 35679
Location: Escondido
Posts: 852
Comments: 0
My Mood:
Send a message via AIM to Soujrnr Send a message via Yahoo to Soujrnr

Soujrnr is offline IP: 68.171.206.81
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Hi Wayne,

That is a great explanation. And just another thing to consider for all who read this with questions about overpowering the sun...the sun is just ANOTHER light source, similar to a strobe only a "little" more powerful. Just as you would reposition strobe lights to get different ratios (i.e. 2:1, 3:1, 4:1) for portraiture or whatever, you are positioning your strobe to increase the ratio between the light the sun is giving the model versus the strobe falling on the model. Don't be intimidated by the sun just because it's big and bright and warm. Your light modifiiers may need to be a bit larger if you use them but creating ratios with strobes versus the sun isn't really that big of a deal if all things are kept in perspective.

A very good day to all and have a safe weekend!

Mike
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Soujrnr Visit Soujrnr's homepage! Find More Posts by Soujrnr
 
Re: \"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-21-2004, 11:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
Free Member

 
isaiahbrink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Member GG#: 39216
Location: Salisbury
Posts: 1,180
Comments: 2
Send a message via MSN to isaiahbrink Send a message via Yahoo to isaiahbrink

isaiahbrink is offline IP: 67.126.238.163
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Well, it has been my experience that using a flash, or other artificial light source outdoors during daylight hours is two fold. The most obvious is to remove shadows from the shadows. The other one that is commonly overlooked is to do what you are asking about. You are adding light to your subject, which should tell your camera or yourself to compensate via exposure for this added light. Try stopping down when you have your flash on full power (or fractions) which will keep your subject properly exposed and everything else overexposed. Just an idea for you to try out. Good luck.

Isaiah Brink
  View Public Profile Send a private message to isaiahbrink Find More Posts by isaiahbrink
 
Re: \"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-23-2004, 06:30 AM   #7 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Member GG#: 35723
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 474
Comments: 0

Dman65 is offline IP: 63.243.17.130
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Hello Wayne,

Thanks for the information. I have been working dilligently trying to get my fill flash technique down so that the light from my flash will match the light from the sun as close as possible to get the image to look natural. I guess since I about have that down I can look into making the flash more powerful. What type of effect does this give you? I understand trying to match things to make it look natural, but does overpowering make it look unnatural?
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Dman65 Find More Posts by Dman65
 
Re: \"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-23-2004, 06:32 AM   #8 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Member GG#: 35723
Location: Charlotte
Posts: 474
Comments: 0

Dman65 is offline IP: 63.243.17.130
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Thanks Ernie,

The image looks great. Thanks for providing an example. I see now why this would be a good technique especially if there is some sky in the picture that you want darkened up to a rich blue.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Dman65 Find More Posts by Dman65
 
Re: \"Overpowering the sun\"
Old 08-23-2004, 04:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member GG#: 37599
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 44
Comments: 0

JeffN is offline IP: 216.241.226.59
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote


Would a standard incident light meter placed in front of the subject meter the same 160th @ f11? Or would you have to take a spot reading off the grey card to get that?
  View Public Profile Send a private message to JeffN Visit JeffN's homepage! Find More Posts by JeffN
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What am I doing wrong " over powering the sun " That_Look_Photo Tech Talk Forum 22 06-13-2009 06:51 PM
Overpowering the sun with strobe? nakins Tech Talk Forum 8 03-22-2007 08:31 AM
Overpowering the sun with flash Dman65 Tech Talk Forum 13 04-19-2006 11:08 AM
Methods for Overpowering the Sun Dman65 Tech Talk Forum 6 06-24-2003 03:36 PM

Sponsors


New To Site? Need Help? Photographer & Model Links
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:18 PM.

© 1999-2017 Garage Glamour™




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93