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Google Threatens Infringement VICTIMS
Old 01-10-2007, 02:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I am providing the following both as public information for people who would report infringement to Google, and as news regarding Google's activities.

Google hides its information on how to report copyright infringements. I couldn't find it on their website. Eventually wrote Google, and after a week, I received back the following. Note the two major threats, thinly-veiled in the first one, and open in the second.

1. Google threatens legitimate complainers with financial ruin. If a legitimate victim complains, and the infringer somehow escapes, e.g., under the "fair use" or other doctrine, Google threatens the victim with financial ruin.

2. Google not only threatens, but absolutely says it WILL, publish DMCA notices on a public website. A website whose name and purported intent, accuses the victim of helping create a "chilling effect." This both insults the victim, and violates the privacy of the infringement victim who is giving notice.

The discerning colleague will also note the outrageously burdensome demands of Google as to the notice itself. The actual DMCA does not go anywhere near that far. Google's obvious intent, both with the threats supra, and the DMCA notice "procedures," is to scare away complaining victims, and make it incredibly burdensome and costly even to send Google notice.

An interesting thought is what the legal situation would be if someone submitted DMCA notice(s) complete with a copyright notice, and an order to Google that it does not have any permission to allow republication of the DMCA notice. Now THAT might be a pretty good copyright case against Google, and maybe also a case for violation of privacy and a bunch of other stuff.

The following is from Google, without further comments, as guidance or threats to victims of Google.

For supporters of Google, please ponder whether learning this, and reading the words right out of Google's mouth, changes you high opinion of Google?

================

Thank you for your note. Please be assured that it is Google's policy to
respond to notices of alleged infringement that comply with the Digital
Millennium Copyright Act (the text of which can be found at the U.S.
Copyright Office website: http://www.copyright.gov/ ) and other applicable
intellectual property laws, which may include removing or disabling access
to material claimed to be the subject of infringing activity.

To file a notice of infringement with us, you must provide a written
communication (by fax or regular mail -- not by email, except by prior
agreement) that sets forth the items specified below. Please note that you
will be liable for damages (including costs and attorneys' fees) if you
materially misrepresent that a product or activity is infringing your
copyrights. Indeed, in a recent case (please see
http://www.onlinepolicy.org/action/l...opg_v_diebold/ for more
information), a company that sent an infringement notification seeking
removal of online materials that were protected by the fair use doctrine
was ordered to pay such costs and attorneys fees. The company agreed to
pay over $100,000. Accordingly, if you are not sure whether material
available online infringes your copyright, we suggest that you first
contact an attorney.

To expedite our ability to process your request, please use the following
format (including section numbers):

1. Identify in sufficient detail the copyrighted work that you believe has
been infringed upon. For example, "The copyrighted work at issue is the
text that appears on http://www.legal.com/legal_page.html."

2. Identify the material that you claim is infringing upon the copyrighted
work listed in item #1 above.

FOR WEB SEARCH, YOU MUST IDENTIFY EACH SEARCH RESULT THAT DIRECTLY LINKS
TO A WEBPAGE THAT ALLEGEDLY CONTAINS INFRINGING MATERIAL. This requires
you to provide (a) the search query that you used, and (b) the URL for
each allegedly infringing search result. Note that the URL for each search
result appears in green on the last line of the description for that
search result.

For example, suppose (hypothetically) that you conducted a search on
Google.com using the query [Google], and found that the third and fourth
results directly link to a webpage that you believe infringes upon the
copyrighted text that you identified in item #1 above. In this case, you
would provide the following information:

Search query: Google
Infringing webpages: http://directory.google.com/

3. Provide information reasonably sufficient to permit Google to contact
you (email address is preferred).

4. Provide information, if possible, sufficient to permit Google to notify
the owner/administrator of the webpage that allegedly contains infringing
material (email address is preferred).

5. Include the following statement: "I have a good faith belief that use
of the copyrighted materials described above on the allegedly infringing
webpages is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law."

6. Include the following statement: "I swear, under penalty of perjury
consistent with United States Code Title 17, Section 512, that the
information in the notification is accurate and that I am the copyright
owner or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right
that is allegedly infringed."

7. Sign the paper.

8. Send the written communication to the following address:

Google Inc.
Attn: Google Legal Support, DMCA Complaints
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043

OR Fax to:

(650) 963-3255, Attn: Google Legal Support, DMCA Complaints

Please note that a copy of each legal notice we receive is sent to a
third-party partner for publication and annotation. As such, your letter
will be forwarded to Chilling Effects (http://www.chillingeffects.org )
for publication. You can see an example of such a publication at
http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca5...i?NoticeID=861. A link to
your published letter will be displayed in Google's search results in
place of the removed content.

For more information, please see http://www.google.com/dmca.html

Regards,
The Google Team

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
 
 
Re: Google Threatens Infringement VICTIMS
Old 01-10-2007, 03:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
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glamourpics, glamourpics, glamourpics, what are we going to do with you?

I, for one, find Google's response adequate and fair.

Let's deal with your main complaints: 1) financial ruin; and 2) publication to Chilling Effects.

My weblog is hosted on FutureQuest, Inc. Let's read their Copyright stuff...

http://www.futurequest.net/Services/TOS/DMCA/

Quote:
Digital Millennium Copyright Act

Notice & Procedures for Making & Countering Notices of Copyright Infringement

FutureQuest does not permit copyright infringing content within the FutureQuest Network. However, due to the nature of its business, FutureQuest does permit organizations and individuals to make content available through the FutureQuest Network that the FutureQuest Representatives do not actively evaluate, examine, screen or approve prior to such material being published. It is therefore possible that copyrighted material may be wrongfully delivered from the FutureQuest Network to the Internet at large without our knowledge. For this reason, the following text is provided to explain the procedure for the filing and countering of claims with FutureQuest's designated Copyright Agent for Notice of Claims of Copyright Infringement.

Pursuant to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), 17 U.S.C. § 512 et seq., if you believe in good faith that your copyrighted material, or the copyrighted material of an entity you represent, has been infringed by a website hosted on the FutureQuest Network you may submit, under penalty of perjury, a DMCA Notice to FutureQuest's Copyright Agent for Notice of Claims of Copyright Infringement. Likewise, if you feel a complaint has been wrongly filed against you as a result of a mistake or a misidentification of the material you may file a Counter Notification with FutureQuest's Designated Agent.

The instructions explaining how to submit DMCA Notices as well as Counter Notifications are detailed below along with a summary of procedures that will take place as a result.

CAUTION:

As stated in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act:
ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY MATERIALLY MISREPRESENTS THAT MATERIAL OR ACTIVITY IS INFRINGING, OR THAT MATERIAL OR ACTIVITY WAS REMOVED OR DISABLED BY MISTAKE OR MISIDENTIFICATION, SHALL BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES, INCLUDING COSTS AND ATTORNEYS’ FEES, INCURRED BY THE ALLEGED INFRINGER, BY ANY COPYRIGHT OWNER OR COPYRIGHT OWNER’S AUTHORIZED LICENSEE, OR BY A SERVICE PROVIDER, WHO IS INJURED BY SUCH MISREPRESENTATION, AS THE RESULT OF THE SERVICE PROVIDER RELYING UPON SUCH MISREPRESENTATION IN REMOVING OR DISABLING ACCESS TO THE MATERIAL OR ACTIVITY CLAIMED TO BE INFRINGING, OR IN REPLACING THE REMOVED MATERIAL OR CEASING TO DISABLE ACCESS TO IT.

This means that, under federal law, you may suffer substantial penalties which could include large fines to cover monetary damages, court costs, and attorney fees for entities such as the copyright owner, website owner, and FutureQuest, Inc. if you knowingly misrepresent material as infringing, or not infringing, thereby causing FutureQuest or other individuals to suffer damages due to your wrongful claims. You could also be subject to criminal prosecution for perjury. For the protection of everyone, it is vital that you only submit a claim if you believe in good faith that the claim is true and correct.
To me, their language looks similar. I see nothing wrong with Google's statement, "Please note that you will be liable for damages (including costs and attorneys' fees) if you materially misrepresent that a product or activity is infringing your copyrights." Do you?

In fact, FutureQuest's language is very similar, no? And if I were running either of those two organizations, I'd do the same darn thing.

As far as Google providing your complaint to a third party (Chilling Effects), big deal. If you are going to go to court, guess what--it's public. So get over it.

As Google also stated, "Accordingly, if you are not sure whether material available online infringes your copyright, we suggest that you first contact an attorney." Great advice. Don't get your knickers twisted over every little potential problem. If you have a legitimate grievance, then go about your complaint in a proper fashion.

I am having a hard time glamourpics to understand what your fuss is all about. I am trying to be sympthatic to your cause, but am unable to do so. As near as I can see, this is much ado about nothing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpics View Post
I am providing the following both as public information for people who would report infringement to Google, and as news regarding Google's activities.

Google hides its information on how to report copyright infringements. I couldn't find it on their website. Eventually wrote Google, and after a week, I received back the following. Note the two major threats, thinly-veiled in the first one, and open in the second.

1. Google threatens legitimate complainers with financial ruin. If a legitimate victim complains, and the infringer somehow escapes, e.g., under the "fair use" or other doctrine, Google threatens the victim with financial ruin.

2. Google not only threatens, but absolutely says it WILL, publish DMCA notices on a public website. A website whose name and purported intent, accuses the victim of helping create a "chilling effect." This both insults the victim, and violates the privacy of the infringement victim who is giving notice.

The discerning colleague will also note the outrageously burdensome demands of Google as to the notice itself. The actual DMCA does not go anywhere near that far. Google's obvious intent, both with the threats supra, and the DMCA notice "procedures," is to scare away complaining victims, and make it incredibly burdensome and costly even to send Google notice.

An interesting thought is what the legal situation would be if someone submitted DMCA notice(s) complete with a copyright notice, and an order to Google that it does not have any permission to allow republication of the DMCA notice. Now THAT might be a pretty good copyright case against Google, and maybe also a case for violation of privacy and a bunch of other stuff.

The following is from Google, without further comments, as guidance or threats to victims of Google.

For supporters of Google, please ponder whether learning this, and reading the words right out of Google's mouth, changes you high opinion of Google?

================
Please see glamourpic's original message for Google's quote. I overran G1's message length limit, so I truncated the glamourpic's quote by eliminating Google's stuff.
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Re: Google Threatens Infringement VICTIMS
Old 01-10-2007, 08:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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[quote=Stecyk;241431] said glamourpics, glamourpics, glamourpics, what are we going to do with you?
[You might listen, for one thing. You know about computers and the Internet; if you listen you'll learn about ethics, intellectual property, and the biggest intellectual property infringer in history]

I, for one, find Google's response adequate and fair.

Let's deal with your main complaints: 1) financial ruin; and 2) publication to Chilling Effects.

My weblog is hosted on FutureQuest, Inc. Let's read their Copyright stuff...

http://www.futurequest.net/Services/TOS/DMCA/


To me, their language looks similar. I see nothing wrong with Google's statement, "Please note that you will be liable for damages (including costs and attorneys' fees) if you materially misrepresent that a product or activity is infringing your copyrights." Do you? [Without turning this into a legal brief (which seldom are "brief") I mention how amused I am by the example they gave, of a strange situation extremely far removed from the typical case of the victimized photographer. And the context here is obviously meant to deter DMCA notices].

[deleted stuff]

As far as Google providing your complaint to a third party (Chilling Effects), big deal. If you are going to go to court, guess what--it's public. So get over it. [Why don't you read what you said before shooting off your mouth. Court filings are public. However, a DMCA takedown complaint IS NOT A COURT FILING. You do know the difference, don't you? Google has no authority to publicly post such a private complaint, ESPECIALLY if the notifier specifically warns Google not to do it. The context clearly makes it an attempt by Google to intimidate the notifier by exposing him to unwelcome publicity and possible abuse by the likes of the EFF. Now I suggest that if YOU are unable to respond to what people actually post, rather than what you imagine they posted, YOU "get over it."]

As Google also stated, "Accordingly, if you are not sure whether material available online infringes your copyright, we suggest that you first contact an attorney." Great advice. Don't get your knickers twisted over every little potential problem. If you have a legitimate grievance, then go about your complaint in a proper fashion. [You didn't bother addressing a major point, that Google, on its own and far beyond the scope of the DMCA, demands various other information to make a notification more burdensome. Thus, their purported policy (aspects of which have been ruled in court to be invalid) is designed to add additional burdens to the victimized artist, as well as to intimidate him by threats of financial ruination, and unwelcome (and illegal) public exposure of his notification.]

I am having a hard time glamourpics to understand what your fuss is all about. I am trying to be sympthatic to your cause, but am unable to do so. As near as I can see, this is much ado about nothing. [Google bases a business on infringement; becomes the biggest IP pirate in the world; causes harm to photographers worldwide; and makes DMCA complaints burdensome - as well as impliedly and openly threatening the victim. If you, as a photographer, think these events are "nothing" then you have a problem reading, comprehending, or thinking. I know photographers whose entire livelihood has been destroyed by Google-facilitated theft. You think that is "nothing." I sure don't.

BTW, apropos of nothing, since you are in Calgary, do you REALLY think that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (aka "The Horsemen") should allow Indian officers to wear Turbans instead of the traditional "Dudley Dooright" hat? Everyone I spoke to in Calgary was disgusted over the situation. Since you obviously know everything, what's your opinion?]





Please see glamourpic's original message for Google's quote. I overran G1's message length limit, so I truncated the glamourpic's quote by eliminating Google's stuff.
 
 
Re: Google Threatens Infringement VICTIMS
Old 01-10-2007, 08:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpics View Post
As far as Google providing your complaint to a third party (Chilling Effects), big deal. If you are going to go to court, guess what--it's public. So get over it. [Why don't you read what you said before shooting off your mouth. Court filings are public. However, a DMCA takedown complaint IS NOT A COURT FILING. You do know the difference, don't you?
Yes, I most certainly do. But if you are lodging a complaint, then you must be serious, no? And if you're serious, then you are prepared to use the courts? Therefore, get over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpics View Post
Google has no authority to publicly post such a private complaint, ESPECIALLY if the notifier specifically warns Google not to do it.
Then don't submit your complaint to Google. Just sue.

If you choose to submit your complaint to Google and Google advises you beforehand of its policies, then too bad, soo sad. So yes they have authority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpics View Post
As Google also stated, "Accordingly, if you are not sure whether material available online infringes your copyright, we suggest that you first contact an attorney." Great advice. Don't get your knickers twisted over every little potential problem. If you have a legitimate grievance, then go about your complaint in a proper fashion. [You didn't bother addressing a major point, that Google, on its own and far beyond the scope of the DMCA, demands various other information to make a notification more burdensome. Thus, their purported policy (aspects of which have been ruled in court to be invalid) is designed to add additional burdens to the victimized artist, as well as to intimidate him by threats of financial ruination, and unwelcome (and illegal) public exposure of his notification.]
Whatever. If your complaint is legitimate, you have nothing to worry about. If not, then you have something to worry about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpics View Post
I am having a hard time glamourpics to understand what your fuss is all about. I am trying to be sympthatic to your cause, but am unable to do so. As near as I can see, this is much ado about nothing. [Google bases a business on infringement; becomes the biggest IP pirate in the world; causes harm to photographers worldwide; and makes DMCA complaints burdensome - as well as impliedly and openly threatening the victim. If you, as a photographer, think these events are "nothing" then you have a problem reading, comprehending, or thinking. I know photographers whose entire livelihood has been destroyed by Google-facilitated theft. You think that is "nothing." I sure don't.
Google is no different from other institutions. They advise you of adverse financial consequences of filing frivilous claims where you materially misrepresent that a product or activity is infringing your copyrights. This sounds eminently fair to me.

As far as Chilling Effects, I am okay with that. Googles promotes dissemination of information. If your claim is clearly valid, then no big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpics View Post
BTW, apropos of nothing, since you are in Calgary, do you REALLY think that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (aka "The Horsemen") should allow Indian officers to wear Turbans instead of the traditional "Dudley Dooright" hat? Everyone I spoke to in Calgary was disgusted over the situation. Since you obviously know everything, what's your opinion?]
I have two thoughts: One, this is completely irrelevant to our discussion at hand and thus doesn't deserve a response; and two, because your comment is racially motivated, I am not going to respond. In fact, I have given your comment more attention than it deserves.
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Re: Google Threatens Infringement VICTIMS
Old 01-10-2007, 10:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Do you have a crusade against Google? This is a glamour photography site, not a "let's lynch Google" site. And yes, we believe in copryight protection as a photographer, writer and author, but I don't look at Google as hurting when in fact they give you free PR, no different than Myspace and Youtube. Besides, if it was placed on the web domain, you can add robots.txt file to not allow search ening indexing, so every owner of web placed work can do that.

Let's get away from Google and move on to photography topics. Thanks, rg.
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Re: Google Threatens Infringement VICTIMS
Old 01-11-2007, 02:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolandogomez View Post
Do you have a crusade against Google? This is a glamour photography site, not a "let's lynch Google" site. ...

Let's get away from Google and move on to photography topics. Thanks, rg.
=================

I accede to your accurate assessment of the purpose of the site, and to your impeccable patience and politeness, and to your request. As far as Google, I will leave the verdict to the Courts, the juries, and the inevitable laws of Karma.
 
 
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