What’s your budget? - long question(s)

[BenE]

I keep seeing this comment, and while I can understand the idea behind it, can’t understand why that “answer” would be a suitable one when asked the question “How much do you charge?”
I will admit to not being experienced in the world of big business or dealing with big companies, but it seems to me that when a company asks that question, and is given the “What is your budget?” reply, it indicates the person answering is either willing to lower prices to get the job (assuming the photographers prices are higher), or to try to get more than his usual rate.

Maybe if I explain it like this it will make sense.
A company calls a photographer and says we need a job done, and we want a CD with 20 high resolution images. Can you give us some idea of the cost… your hourly rate, and the cost of the CD ? (and they give you a specific use for the images) Answer: What is your budget?
They call another photographer and get the same, “What is your budget?” reply. Don’t you figure the people calling sort of catch on to the game, after the second or third call to a photographer, and wonder why they are going to have to play a numbers game with them?

Or this:
In the case of a photographer wanting to hire a model.
I need you to model 2 hours and it will involve swimsuit and lingerie only. It will be in the studio and we provide a MUA. (Other specifics are given) What is your hourly rate, and any other costs, such as travel, etc?
Answer: What is your budget?
Once again, that answer would indicate the model either has no rates and just quotes per assignment, hoping to get as much as possible regardless.
Since I deal mostly in portraits (retired from weddings), I have a price schedule which covers all of this. I realize working with general public is different than commercial, but it seems that after a while if a photographer or model keeps giving the “What is your budget?” answer, the person inquiring might move on to someone who has established rates.
Personally, if I were looking for a model and found two that I felt had equal qualifications, I would probably select the one who said, “I charge $100 per hour with a minimum of 2 hours, and travel of 60 cents a mile, plus meals, rather than a model who said, “What is your budget?”


.......edit...
I am not trying to compare photography to auto mechanics, however...
If you took your car in to a mechanic and asked, "About how much is this going to cost?" and the mechanic said. "What is your budget?", you would probably leave and utter some terrible words.

[JonScott]

Sooo...What's the question? I see a series of statements and self-answered questions

I hate the phrase "what is your budget" as a reply to "what are your rates."

I've found that the reply "What is your (client type)'s public image worth to you? I charge what I'm worth." is *extremely* effective, most especially when fielding a cold call from somebody that's shopping around.

The Snob Appeal Pitch, when properly applied to the situation ALWAYS works.

[BenE]

Originally Posted by JonScott

Sooo...What's the question? I see a series of statements and self-answered questions

I hate the phrase "what is your budget" as a reply to "what are your rates."

I've found that the reply "What is your (client type)'s public image worth to you? I charge what I'm worth." is *extremely* effective, most especially when fielding a cold call from somebody that's shopping around.

The Snob Appeal Pitch, when properly applied to the situation ALWAYS works.

You are right... I see I didn't ask a question, but is that a requirement?... LOL


I guess I was asking if in the real world of commercial photography, with honest to goodness photographers, is the reply "What is your budget?", the proper response, or is there a better answer?

And I thank you for the answer and understanding my question, even thought I forgot to ask it.

But I guess from your answer, that you do not give rates (or ball park figures.. whatever) either?

[AristonPhotog]

Originally Posted by BenE

You are right... I see I didn't ask a question, but is that a requirement?... LOL


I guess I was asking if in the real world of commercial photography, with honest to goodness photographers, is the reply "What is your budget?", the proper response, or is there a better answer?

And I thank you for the answer and understanding my question, even thought I forgot to ask it.

But I guess from your answer, that you do not give rates (or ball park figures.. whatever) either?

It sounds like the question is "do you publish your rates?" One the one hand you fear that you will lost the potential sale immediately if your rates are not in the ballpark of what the client is seeking. On the other hand with those rates you have a general idea of what types of client you are expecting.

I am nowhere near profitable, but I have no problem posting rates. If someone likes what I do and they are willing to pay my rates, then we've got a deal. My completely unexperienced suggestion is to use your rates to target the high end of the market. Once you've started the discussion you can fudge down or provide additional value to close the sale.

[BenE]

Originally Posted by AristonPhotog

It sounds like the question is "do you publish your rates?" One the one hand you fear that you will lost the potential sale immediately if your rates are not in the ballpark of what the client is seeking. On the other hand with those rates you have a general idea of what types of client you are expecting.

I am nowhere near profitable, but I have no problem posting rates. If someone likes what I do and they are willing to pay my rates, then we've got a deal. My completely unexperienced suggestion is to use your rates to target the high end of the market. Once you've started the discussion you can fudge down or provide additional value to close the sale.

I wasn't really asking about publishing rates, but I do on my commercial page only, not on portraits. I figure commercial customers are familiar with different rates, anyway.

I do not on portrait pages, since most portraits customers are completely unfamiliar with so many aspects of photography, such as service, quality, retouching, etc. If they are price shopping, I loose most of them.

My question was not worded correctly really, and I was referring to phone conversations.

I am not good at the "fudge down" idea. If I give them a price, and get the feeling I am too high, I usually just thank them for the call, and go back to playing freecell.. and.. I am getting very good at freecell.

[JonScott]

Originally Posted by BenE

You are right... I see I didn't ask a question, but is that a requirement?... LOL


I guess I was asking if in the real world of commercial photography, with honest to goodness photographers, is the reply "What is your budget?", the proper response, or is there a better answer?

And I thank you for the answer and understanding my question, even thought I forgot to ask it.

But I guess from your answer, that you do not give rates (or ball park figures.. whatever) either?

Well, the thread title *does* include "long question" (you know I'm just needling you in fun on that right?)

Actually I DO give rates (which is a hard and fast schedule for private portraiture) and a minimum bid for commercial clients. The minimum bid is basically standardized by knowing fairly closely what my minimum costs will be for several situations. Obviously the more information about the prospective job that I have, the tighter I can zero in on an accurate bid (my studio/location or yours? Do you have a concept and/or shot list? Product only, or talent too? If talent is involved, do I procure them or do you? Those also have direct effects on crew requirements). In an hour on the phone, I can usually hit a bid within $500 of actual invoice rate for a small production.

But the more important thing to consider about my answer above is one of Greg K. Davis' Golden Rules: If you don't value your work, no one else will, either. My attitude spawned from that (as outlined above in the "I charge what I'm worth" statement) is that I don't want every person in town to have one of my portraits on their wall, not every company gets to have me shooting their advertising material. An element of exclusivity translates to a higher level of cache', and that level of cache' means a higher value, a higher value means (say it with me now) more money.

[BenE]

Originally Posted by JonScott

Well, the thread title *does* include "long question" (you know I'm just needling you in fun on that right?)

....................to a higher level of cache', and that level of cache' means a higher value, a higher value means (say it with me now) more money.

Thanks. A lot of good information.

[glennusdin]

ok, i think i understand your question.

I'm going to answer strictly from an advertising shooter perspective. My answer has nothing to do with portraits or seniors or event shooters. This is how the ad business answers your question:

On 90% of the ad jobs that i quote, they are getting quotes from 3 different shooters. Most times they have already selected one as the guy/gal they really want, and the ad agency or client "cost consultants" will not let them give the job out unless they have 3 competitive bids.

So they call you up and ask you to send in an estimate on the job. Your task at this point is to gather as much info as possible from them about the job. Stuff like; how big is the shoot, how many models, crew, locations, rentals, catering, extra stuff, extra lighting, permits, fees, what is the usage and license going to be for, how much post production work....etc. etc. etc.


You ask them how many other shooters they are getting estimates from. I ask them upfront, am I the primary guy or do you just need a bid for me for "triple bidding"? Most times they will be honest with you. If I'm just doing a triple bid and they really want someone else, I'll spend 20 minutes and send them something. If they tell me they have seen my website or I've been recommended and they really want to work with me, I'll spend a day or two making calls and preparing a detailed comprehensive bid.

The last question I ask is.......What is your budget?

No sense even bothering to call for prices on everything if the budget is $ 10,000 and its a $ 20,000 job.

This is a really really ****ty time to be in advertising photography. Jobs are being killed and budgets slashed every minute.

You can stand on your throne and tell them how much value you have all day long. Heck, even Annie Liebovitz has had some well publicized money issues lately. Its not any better 3 or 4 tiers down from the big masters. People are cutting ad budgets and buying stock in place of assignment work every day. The value of stock images has dropped through the floor due to unbelievable practices in that business.

So when they tell me what their budget is, i see if I can quote the job within the budget.

its not a great way to do business, its horrible. Shooters know that the media buy (the amount of money they'll spend to place the ads) are often 100X or more what they budget for photography. Its amazing and incredible what they want shooters to do, for less and less everyday.

But the honest answer is that 2 similar jobs could very easily be quoted at very different rates due to budget. Same shooter, same degree of difficulty, same creative input, but different clients and different budgets.

It would be nice to stand proud and swear you would never adjust your fees to the budget. But I don't know anyone getting ad work these days who doesn't do it.