I'm an MBA student specialising in Marketing - ask me anything!

[Daniel_D50]

Hi everyone!

I just found this sub-forum and thought this is where I might be able to contribute the most, since I am an MBA student at one of the top business schools in Australia (and the world). If you can bear my Australian spelling ("s" instead of "z" in a lot of words, etc ;-), I am more than happy to answer any questions about business or marketing that I can.

This is free help as a way I can repay the kind advice I have received here. This is so I can contribute something of value to the forum since you all know more about photography than I do! :-)

Beware that I am half-way through the degree, and being only a student, my opinions are not yet expert, but might just give you some extra information to consider. As with everything, this is not professional business advice and you should seek expert consultation before relying on anything I say/type. (end disclaimer) ;-)

If I can help, feel free to ask! If I don't know the answer, I might know which direction you should go searching for it.

Daniel.

[racket4life]

Are you advertising or just helping people out of the kindness of your heart? If you are advertising, you may want to speak with RG....

[Mookster]

Racket,

I'd say the beginning of the first sentence says it all. I'm not sure how that would be taken incorrectly? Unless I'm taking it incorrectly? It certainly doesn't read like an advertisement normally would.

I think there are a LOT of us that feel that same way. Since I've ponied up the dough for a "Lifetime", my guilt at not being able to contribute much has been decreased dramatically, but I'd think that most of the "free" folks do not have the knowledge, experience, know how, or whatever to feel that they can contribute as much as the Experts and a few might attempt to contribute in any way they can.

As for steering him toward RG for offering to answer questions people might have in his chosen field of expertise? I'd respectfully say let's leave that determination to the moderators or RG himself. (I'm kind of calling the kettle black with that one, since now I'm "pseudo moderating" as well with this post)

-Mook

[Daniel_D50]

Hi guys,

This is definitely not an ad. I am pretty much a newbie photographer and have learned a lot from these forums in the past months. I didn't see this Marketing and Business forum until recently, and I thought it might be a way to repay the kind advice I've been given from members here (especially regarding my first shoot which turned out very well).

No money or anything else is required :-) I might amend the main message to make that a bit clearer. Thanks for pointing it out.

Daniel

[Steve_Buchanan]

Ok,

How important is this whole online existence thing in the grand marketing scheme. Does anybody take seriously someone they found on MySpace or SecondLife. I know as I get older and my clients get younger I have to work harder to stay on their page as opposed to my own. So, what page are the kids on?

Thoughts?

[Mookster]

Wow, that is a very interesting question!

Here is my .01 cents on this. I'm not trained in Marketing (I'm a Network/Computer/Consulting guy) but I'd say it isn't doing Rolando any harm. He has one of the most successful Photography clinics around, and I'd say a good portion of the success is attributed to his (Glamour1's) presence "online"

He has a MySpace page (so do I, but just so I can view MySpace as a member) and though he probably doesn't do a whole hell of a lot of business out there, it certainly gives him some good, alternative exposure!

That begs a secondary, "Rolando Theory" question... How successful / mainstream was Rolando and/or JTSmith and others, before the internet craze hit? And before the age of DSLR

I'd love to see some other thoughts on this!

Allright Daniel (and whoever has more than a penny), lets hear it.

-Mook
ps. Steve, that is one deeelicious looking burger on your personal web site. Wow!

[Daniel_D50]

Excellent question to begin with.

This is now my second attempt at answering it, because I found I went into far too much detail, which only served to confuse the issue a bit... Here is the distilled version.

The importance of online presence depends on who your target market is. Who is it that you are targeting? Don't just assume "everyone who wants a photo from me". Narrow it to a specific segment of the population, which has common characteristics. Example: Teenagers aged 13-16 who are skateboarders. They are far more likely to buy photographs of, say, skateboarding events from you (if that's what you happen to do, but I am sure you can use this example in your situation). This narrow segment of the population thinks and acts similarly, making it easier to understand them, and get the right message to them in the right way to make them buy stuff from you. The most important first step is really getting to know who they are, and what characteristics they possess. I am sure google has a tonne of stuff on target market definition. Just beware whose info you rely on in the end.

Oh, and before I forget, you don't have to limit yourself to one market to the exclusion of all others. It is just that each distinct market requires a different marketing approach.

As for myspace: if your market is reachable via myspace, you can do it. Just do it in the right way. Make sure the message you communicate to them appeals to them and is the right message in order to make them buy from you. Again, the key is understanding the market you are selling to. If you were selling photographic services for weddings, myspace would be less-suited than if selling skateboarding photos. The medium must match the market which will receive the message.

So, which page are the kids on? Depends which kids. Bookworms might be on scientific websites, and socialisers on myspace. It comes back to knowing the market. Either way, many markets these days are reachable online, if done in the right way.

I hope this was somewhat helpful. Because I didn't know specifics, it is hard to really target your specific situation, but hopefully it gives you some idea of where to look from here. I also hope it wasn't too simple a reply. If so, let me know.

Daniel.

P.S.: Mook: consider Rolando's market: it's mainly digital photographers. Digital photographers have computers, and often internet connections. Not a bad market to target a photography website at ;-) Good observation!

[jimmyd]

I'll bite.

I'm a fairly established photographer, i.e., shooting what I shoot, and I'm about to embark in a new business with my daughter: Family Photography with an emphasis on babies and kids. We're not looking to become a kid-photo-factory. We'll be marketing much more stylized and custom sort of work.

We both live in a generally mid-to-upper-middle-class, suburban, bedroom community in the Los Angeles area. It's a very family-oriented city.

My daughter will be the "face" of the business. I shoot way too much glamour and tease and that sort of stuff to be making my background, for obvious reasons, general knowledge amongst our potential customers. My daughter, OTOH, is a young, married, mother of two who attends college in the evenings and her work experience has mostly been working with kids-- for a long time, working with autistic children. She's outgoing, very personable and likeable, with a good head on her shoulders.

Since we're just starting out and, of course, there is already competition in the community, we need to get our business name out there. It will probably be called Bella Foto. We don't have much cash for advertising. So, I was thinking there must be creative ways for us to donate our services, initially, to get some good word of mouth going and some free press. Im confident the photography will speak for itself.

What approach would you suggest for donating services? Contests? Volunteering the work to non-profits or other child-related organizations? Simply shooting the children of everyone we know, for free, to develop the portfolio?

I'm also thinking we could work out deals with local dance or gym studios, martial arts studios, and other businesses that provide extra-curricular activities for children. Some of kind of deal where we, uhhh. ... well, I hate to call it a kick-back but that's kind-of what it is. Thoughts?

[R_Fredrick_Smith]

Back in the mid 70's I developed my photo business by visiting dance studios and offering to shoot the classes and students for free. I was shooting all black and white and would shoot 8 or 10 rolls (36 exp). I would then develop and process them in my darkroom and print proof sheets (35mm size proofs) and take them to the dance studio owner and give her a choice of any 8x10 print she might want for promotional use (usually I gave them 6 8 x10s). I then left her a stack of proof sheets to share with her students. They had my name and phone stamped on the back of each. That's it. No prices, no special offers. Just some free 8x10's and some free proofs. Each one of these freebies netted me many thousands of dollars from the students contacting me wanting prints. And some of these worked into weddings, and commercial work, and so forth. So that's one example. I always used a very low key approach.

Cheers,
rfs

[Stecyk]

Although my mba specialization is finance, I do possess reasonable common sense and am able, I believe, to offer some food for thought. Reality is, as the recipient of advice and recommendations, you must do a gut check and see if the advice and recommendations make sense to you and your daughter. I am confident that you Jimmyd with you experience know more about your business than most any mba. That's not to disparage formal education, but rather to recognize that the school of hard knocks is often a more effective teacher.

I don't have any answers for you, but I do know how I would begin to start developing my strategy. I'd talk to my customers and learn all about them. You mention that you live in a mid- to upper-middle class, suburban bedroom community of LA. What differentiates your customers against others? What drives them to want photos? Where do they place their value? Is it on speed--shot today delivered tomorrow? On uniqueness of the photos or quality of the photos? Do they want the digital image to send to their friends and relatives (copyright issues)? Do they want photos taken at their homes or a studio usually? Do they want to incorporate the whole family or just the children? In essence, I would try to find out what the two or three things that are most important, and then try to differentiate yourself along those lines.

I am also saying not to be all things to all people. If you can, segment your target audience so that you can do extremely well. Perhaps by focusing on babies and kids, you've already done that.

BTW, I doubt price is the deciding factor, and even if it is, I wouldn't want to use low price as a key selling feature. From what I have seen of your work, I know you don't either.

If I knew more about the photography business, I'd like to do a customer survey to pick their brains. I don't have a sufficient background in your business even to properly frame the questions. Perhaps that is something you and your daughter can do.

The other thing I would really focus on is communication. How can you communicate most effectively with your clients. I recall a VP of one of the major photocopier companies talking to our class one day. She mentioned the following scenario.

Her Company A had shorter average wait time for the repairperson to arrive and generally took less time to fix the machine as opposed to Company B. Company B, however, always won the customer surveys. Company B phoned the clients, told the clients when to expect the repairperson, and kept the client informed of any changes. Company A got there as soon as it could, but didn't bother with the personal touch.

So what I am trying to say with all that is to keep the customer informed throughout the process as much as possible. I am confident you know this process extremely well. I would see, however, if you could somehow differentiate yourself with the customer service to make customers remember you and want you.

Another thought, for what it is worth, is to do some photojournalism. You’re an extremely good writer, JimmyD. Your daughter works with autistic children. Are there some success stories or stories that would be newsworthy where you could write up an article for the local paper and provide the photography?

One idea that I liked for family photos is where one family took a photo of all the family members on June 17th every year. You can see the how the family changed over time. I liked this idea. Could you sell your clients on something like this?

http://zonezero.com/magazine/essays/diegotime/time.html

Another idea is to offer incentive programs to those you have already photographed to bring others to your studio. I suspect new mothers flock together to compare notes and share stories. And if they are upper middle class, perhaps they have the luxury of not needing to work, so they communicate more with their friends and neighbors? Perhaps offer a rebate the referrer and a discount to the referee?

I don't have any magic solutions. As mentioned, I would try to learn as much about my clients as possible in order to provide them with the best possible service. Your photography will obviously differentiate you, and I suspect that there are other factors too that you can tap into. I just don't know what they are.