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One roll is that too much to ask?
Old 03-02-2009, 08:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I have an event that I do monthly that travels from city to city, the Daren Gray Super Shoot. We are on ou6 5th Super Shoot and we have grown each time. The last Daren Gray Super Shoot in South Carolina we had 40 models and over 1,100 spectators.

I bring my team of photogs, MUAs and stylist. We invite the local photographers, MUAs and stylist to participate if they choose or to just come out and network.

We have a test that each photographer must pass to participate. The photographer must submit 24 images from one look of one shoot with no post processing. We are looking for lighting, composition and the ability to pose a model who may have no experience. So many can’t pass this test this is not rocket science we are not looking for Anne Lebowitz(sp) just a descent image.

Why 24 ? It just a roll. Why no post processing? We have a lot images to turn around and there is no time . I need good images straight out of the camera. This is a photographer’s event not a picture maker’s event! I am not downing pictures makers some of favorites are picture makers (depending on what the customer wants I am one).

Where are the photographers ? I have reviewed some portfolios and I think that this photog is okay but when I ask for the 24 it goes down hill. That leads me to think there are a lot of lucky shots out there.


Is one roll too much to ask?
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Re: One roll is that too much to ask?
Old 03-02-2009, 08:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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"24 images from one look of one shoot"

What exactly does that mean? 24 frames of one light set up of one head shot, as an example? Or are you looking for someone who can take a model and knock out 24 great shots in a variety of poses?

I remember one test when I was hiring on a wedding studio. Two 12 exposure rolls that they were going to print directly to 8x10 for the album. No intermediate proofs. I needed 20 keepers with 4 for the "cushion". Did it, but never again. Worked for them for a while before I had enough demand from repeat customers, that I went out on my own.

I think most shoot 2-3 images off each "roll," as most "models" aren't very good at posing. It takes a while to get them to stand correctly, then you start working on expression. Then they let the post slip and so on.
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Re: One roll is that too much to ask?
Old 03-02-2009, 08:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Yes one lighting setup all images from one look Not great, just good just competent. Are you saying a success rate of 12% is acceptable.
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Re: One roll is that too much to ask?
Old 03-02-2009, 09:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetMap View Post
Yes one lighting setup all images from one look Not great, just good just competent. Are you saying a success rate of 12% is acceptable.
There are some here, myself included, that shoot for our own or the model's book. In that case 3-4 keepers in one look is most likely 2 more than will ever get used. I will edit no more than two images per look for that exact reason. Are my 25 shots all keepers? Most likely not, but set, lighting, and pose usually are. Where most fail is the expression. If I wait an hour for 24 perfect expressions, it won't be a very 'happy' shoot for the client.

YMMV.
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Re: One roll is that too much to ask?
Old 03-02-2009, 09:59 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I refuse to believe a serious armature can not deliver 20 keepers out of 24. What is going are we just hitting the shutter and hoping for the best or do we edit when we look the viewfinder and release the shutter when we have composed the right image.
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Re: One roll is that too much to ask?
Old 03-02-2009, 10:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetMap View Post
I have an event that I do monthly that travels from city to city, the Daren Gray Super Shoot. We are on ou6 5th Super Shoot and we have grown each time. The last Daren Gray Super Shoot in South Carolina we had 40 models and over 1,100 spectators.

I bring my team of photogs, MUAs and stylist. We invite the local photographers, MUAs and stylist to participate if they choose or to just come out and network.

We have a test that each photographer must pass to participate. The photographer must submit 24 images from one look of one shoot with no post processing. We are looking for lighting, composition and the ability to pose a model who may have no experience. So many can’t pass this test this is not rocket science we are not looking for Anne Lebowitz(sp) just a descent image.

Why 24 ? It just a roll. Why no post processing? We have a lot images to turn around and there is no time . I need good images straight out of the camera. This is a photographer’s event not a picture maker’s event! I am not downing pictures makers some of favorites are picture makers (depending on what the customer wants I am one).

Where are the photographers ? I have reviewed some portfolios and I think that this photog is okay but when I ask for the 24 it goes down hill. That leads me to think there are a lot of lucky shots out there.


Is one roll too much to ask?
It doesn't matter what we think. It matters what your potential customers think. And to me, if interest drops when you ask for those pictures. I would say, 24 is to much.
JUST MAYBE, people are looking to get the one great image in a lighting set, and when they do get the desired shot, they move on and don't do 24 more pics, in case some guy who is throwing a "super shoot" asks for them?

Now here's where it gets kinda wierd and confusing for me. You yourself said you reviewed portfolios, and then after that, ask for something else?
The portfolio is made and is there specifically for people, like you, to view. All other stuff is their bussiness, not yours.
And another thing that screams out " RED FLAG" is your rule of no post processing? Were I a pro, nobody would see one single image of mine without my logo splattered across the image, in case someone wanted to slip my images into their portfolio.
Another thing comes to mind is, usually 24 pics, there is bound to be more bad shots than good shots. Any photog worth their weight in sand wouldn't show any pic to anyone that isn't their best work.
IF YOU SHOW BAD WORK, YOU LOOK BAD!
No Offense but I have never heard of you. And were I asked to show anything more than my portfolio, i'd tell you to piss off.

Why would anyone that would attend this "SUPER SHOOT" need to pass, or even want to pass your test anyways?
Is this a totally FREE super shoot funded by only you? If it's free, okay I can see some criterior needing to be met to enter. But nothing passed showing the portfolio.

But if it isnt free and people pay to get in, It makes no sense at all to be asked to provide anything to be able to attend, other than their payment method.

and finally, if it's one of those things that invites a photog to come for free, and then charges people to get in and watch, do the invited photogs get any fees for their time and work at your " SUPER SHOOT?" Or do you and your crew keep all the cash?
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hope is not a method
Old 03-02-2009, 11:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Claim that all you need is one good image all you want I wish I would deliver one image to a commercial client. Shooting 200 images to get 24 good images is nuts. I know its digital but damm !. Plan before the shutter is released there is an old birth control movie that I saw in high school the title was “hope is not a method” The same goes for good photography hope not a method.

No sir when you want to work for me its all my business! That I got a “lucky” image does not pass muster, if one were to shoot 1 million images laws of averages will get you 100 good images at some point. But a group of monkey shooting 1million images will come up with 100 good images.

Note for you, You can not deliver images to customers with your logo splattered all over it but then again you said you were not a pro or a serious amateur so piss off.


The business of the DGSS is above your understanding so no need to discuss my business model.
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Re: One roll is that too much to ask?
Old 03-03-2009, 01:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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How about uploading an example of what you are looking for from your work?

For us, it will just help promote the discussion in constructive areas. For your potential clients it will show them better what you are looking for.

I expect you could take a series of images and put them in an old style 35mm proof sheet layout and make it one HD image to post here. That would enable us to see each image well enough, but not make them good enough files to copy.
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Re: hope is not a method
Old 03-03-2009, 02:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetMap View Post
Claim that all you need is one good image all you want I wish I would deliver one image to a commercial client. Shooting 200 images to get 24 good images is nuts. I know its digital but damm !. Plan before the shutter is released there is an old birth control movie that I saw in high school the title was “hope is not a method” The same goes for good photography hope not a method.

No sir when you want to work for me its all my business! That I got a “lucky” image does not pass muster, if one were to shoot 1 million images laws of averages will get you 100 good images at some point. But a group of monkey shooting 1million images will come up with 100 good images.

Note for you, You can not deliver images to customers with your logo splattered all over it but then again you said you were not a pro or a serious amateur so piss off.


The business of the DGSS is above your understanding so no need to discuss my business model.
lol yup k, piss off? Is this the kind of originality you offer at your super shoot events?
I am wondering of your Business model ever included how to treat potential customers?
Confronted by a simple agressive post in a forum, you come out with that dribble for a reply? ARE YOU SERIOUS????
hehehehe
Try to remember you're the one that posted the problem not me slick.
And according to your information you posted originally, more people feel the way I do, than you do, and you're posting to find out why.
And you came up with THAT for a reply???

And portfolio's are designed to be viewed by potential customers aren't they?
Isn't that why the idea was brought into being and put into practice? Don't portfolios contain more than one good image? How many images were in the portfolios you viewed, one? ten? 100? But for you,,, that isn't enough?
Now don't take this the wrong way but, what makes you such a "STEP UP" in life that anyone would want to meet your odd requirements? What is it you bring to the table that other customers do not?

So after some research, your original posted problem information and your reply to my reply, I can safely say the problem lies within you. Not just with your over inflated, ridiculous requirements.
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Re: One roll is that too much to ask?
Old 03-03-2009, 08:37 AM   #10 (permalink)
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One you are not a potential customer nor is anyone on GG they’re potential contractors. Like I said the Business model is above your understanding! as your name suggest your are “JUSTA_NEWBIE”. I employ 4-5 photographers every month and paid them their day rate ? make that 6 because I pay myself. So as a photographer I offer 48 to 72 paid days to other photographers. Call me when you can do that ! Better yet call me when you can shoot 1 “roll” of good images

Your are right 100 lucky images that is not enough. I want constant, reproducible results. This is not a problem for me it’s a commentary on those who hold the shutter release and pray for a good image vs composing a good image. I say again hope is not a method.

Your right a portfolio should be a example of what one can do and REPRODUCE and show that one has an understanding of photography but thats not the case with a luck shooter. “Hope is not a method”
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