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Capitan save a model or Whos your daddy now
Old 02-09-2009, 08:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Sitting at the coffee shop I over heard a couple of photographers . Talking about “my models” I know both of these guys as they have rented my studio previously. As there conversation progresses one relays the story of how he had to escort “his model” to a shoot with a photographer ,that she was having problems with her boyfriend and her best friend did not understand her. For the next 20 minutes these two grown men had the conservation of two 20 years old girls and loud enough that I could not ignore them out.

What is this, why are 40 year men that engrossed in the life of a 20 year old girl ? When speaking of a model in the possessive form and you escort them to a photo shoot does that make one a pimp ? Is this a surrogate daddy role ? I had to catch myself laughing while wanting to tell them to go get a life with some women there own age.

It would be below me to escort a model to a shoot. One I have a business to run. Two I would never intrude on a photographer like that 3. My pride would not let me look like an internet pimp driving girls around to photo shoots.

Why the rant ? I have no idea, I rent my studio to a number of armature photographers so the conversations are always interesting but the surrogate Daddy seems to very prevalent among amateur photographers.

If someone asked me to escort them to a shoot I would say don’t go. Don’t put yourself in position you are not comfortable with.
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Last edited by NetMap; 02-09-2009 at 10:34 AM..
 
Re: Capitan save a model or who you daddy now
Old 02-09-2009, 10:22 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Made me laugh..

I know some of those guys too.
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Re: Capitan save a model or Whos your daddy now
Old 02-09-2009, 12:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Daren,

Reading your post, I have to agree and disagree. I agree that photographers should not be escorts (pimps) to models and I personally, as many professionals in the industry, despise models "managed" by photographers. In most states, it's illegal to represent a model unless you are a licensed agent and if it's not illegal to be an agent and a photographer representing a model, it's consider unethical for a licensed agent to photograph their own models.

I have no problem with a photographer giving a model advice, like asking her to carefully research a photographer out, nor do I have a problem with a photographer helping models out, like advice on their portfolios, but if a model has to bring an escort to her shoot, she hasn't thoroughly and carefully researched her photographer out. If she's that uncomfortable with a photographer before she gets there, she has no business going in the first place. And if she feels uncomfortable at the shoot, she needs to leave immediately. I do think a model should have a "safety phone call" set up with someone to call her 20-30-minutes upon arrival and perhaps a text message or two during a shoot so someone knows she's ok. Models text message all the time, it's easy to do when in the make-up or changing room.

Now, with the age between men and women, I have to disagree with you. In fact, in some countries it's very normal that a younger woman marries an older man, and no, I'm not talking about someone with the age difference of 60 years, but I know several happily married couples where there is at least a 20-year age gap. I know three specific ones that have children, been married over 15 years and I actually photographed their wives for a private glamour session years ago and they are still married today. One of them has a 26-year age gap and they met in similar fields of occupation. Sure, one will beat the other to the nursing home, but that doesn't mean they love each other and they will be there till the end for each other.

In fact, my oldest daughter, who will be 24 this year is marrying, later this year, a gentleman older than her and I approve. At first, as all fathers probably would do, I was apprehensive but overtime as I got to know him, I approve. He's even come with her to our networking dinners for my workshops in Atlanta. He's sincere in his intentions and they bought a house together last year and have been together over a year.

At the same time, I disagree when the intentions (on both sides, man and woman) are dishonest between them, regardless of age. I also know the reverse, where an older woman married a younger man--in fact I went to her work retirement a few weeks ago and he's still working at the same company where they met and she retired from. They are very, very successful and both had similar jobs.

Basically, what I'm saying, don't confuse age differences between people and wanna be model agents (managers), they are two distinct topics. I'm not sure about the conversation you overhead, as it's hearsay, but you state they were talking about how they had to escort a model to a photo shoot, her problems with a boyfriend and her best friend did not understand her. I have a problem, as mentioned before, about the escort thing, but often professionals do discuss issues with models and as part of the rapport building process, models will tell you their problems no different than a private glamour subject discussing their life issues. Sometimes people vent and sometimes photographers are like bartenders, people feel comfortable and spill their beans because we tend to listen to our subjects.

Many models have told me their issues and many do look-up to me as a "father" figure. In fact Holley Dorrough always tells everyone I'm her second Dad. It's not unusual for her to discuss her life issues with me, as we're friends and she's met all four of my daughters and my son. I have no bad intentions with Holley in nothing more than her career and I do treat her like a daughter--she lived in my house with my family once for over month. Her parents spent almost a week visiting us and I've visited them in Alabama too. We're all friends. Holley calls me on holidays, my birthday (our birthdays are five days apart so it's easy for both of us to remember), plus on Father's Day. She sends me models too, I might add. If you've ever met her, she's a sweetheart and has never let it go to her head that she's a Playboy Playmate. It's a mutual respect we have for one another.

But one thing I don't do, is "model manage" her. I have given her advice. She sometimes will call me and ask me if I know "such and such" photographer and what I think of them. I've never escorted her to a shoot and I don't plan on it because she won't go on a shoot that she feels requires an escort and she's very careful who she works with. Unfortunately not all models are as smart as she is, so I'll tell models what I mentioned above, research, research, research.

Well I have tons to do, but I wanted to share my thoughts. All the best, rg sends!
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Re: Capitan save a model or Whos your daddy now
Old 02-09-2009, 02:16 PM   #4 (permalink)
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We call them "White Knights."

They put on their armor and ride to the rescue of the poor innocent models lest they get taken advantage of by the big bad photographers, all the while angling themselves into a position to do just that - take advantage of the model.
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Re: Capitan save a model or Whos your daddy now
Old 02-09-2009, 04:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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A 40 yr old man with a 20 yr old wife might seem like too much of an age difference, but when he is 100, she will be 80, and it doesn't seem that important, huh?
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Re: Capitan save a model or Whos your daddy now
Old 02-09-2009, 10:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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IMHO there is a difference between and escort (pimp daddy?) and a chaperone (mommy?). Most amateur models I've dealt with didn't bring a chaperone. Only a few brought a girl friend, which led to follow up shoots with them. I do shoot a pair of sisters occasionally and they each bring a girl friend, both have led to great follow-ups.

One model was from a popular website and her girlfriend was "off-site", that has led to a string of 3-4 great glamour and glamour nude shoots for privately held work. Pretty nice to get referrals like that. I do try to make communication and understandings as clear as possible well in advance.

Young models use the term escort and chaperone interchangably. My expierece and .02 worth is if they insist on what is called an "escort" to a shoot where the theme fashion, glamour, nude, etc, and shoot theme has been clearly stated, and the issue of a chaperone has been discussed, and one comes along unexpectedly or unannounced, there is a bigger issue of fear or insecuirty of some sort. The "escort" won't releive the fear that is in the model's mind and shows in the eyes, and the shoot will suffer IMHO. It can be a great "get acquainted" shoot with a follow up where results improve dramatically, and the theme has improved results whether fashion, glam, etc. So shoot anyway, but with lowered expectations for first shoot. (The eyes just don't engage when non-essential people are on set.)

Just my thoughts without being asked...
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