Lens Diaries Go Now
Glamour, Beauty, Nude, Models, Photographers

*    |  Register  


 
Go Back   Garage Glamour™ > Garage Glamour™ Main Forums > Main Community Forum
 

Main Community Forum General Modeling & Photography Forum
Adult posts prohibited!>>Please Read Our GUIDELINES before posting!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 03:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Member GG#: 46572
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 90
Comments: 0
My Mood:

kjtw is offline IP: 67.60.31.221
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Hey all...it has been quite a while since I have posted here, but I am back. I have been taking a break from photography for a bit due to work and a recent surgery, but I am hopping back on the horse and getting back into the saddle.

I had something come up today that really got me to thinking. I have recently decided that I was going to give microstock a shot for some potential extra income. What I have come to realize is something that I have thought about over the years briefly, but never really focused on; the photography community in general.

There are a lot of photographers in the community that will give an honest opinon of a particular shot or of your work in general. Most will give constructive critisizm and helpful advice on how to make a shot better or how to do a particular technique in a way that makes it more effective. However, there are quite a few photogs out there that just state that something sucks and then don't give any reason why. They give DESTRUCTIVE critisizm. That which is uncalled for.

I recently had a photo that I submitted for stock be declined for technical reasons (they don't give specifics). There is no way to question why, it just is. So, I posted the shot in the site's forum to get the opinion of others on the site and get some input as to how to improve the shot. The first response was simply that the shot was bad and better luck next time. No explaination, nothing. The second post was very helpful and explained to me why it didn't get accepted on the site. This particular site, from what I have found, does not cherish artistic photos, just your standard run of the mill technically correct shots. If the rules are broken, your shot is denied. Simple as that. That is fine with me...but not what I want to be involved with. I will no longer submit photos to that kind of site.

One thing that I have learned over the years, especially since getting into the world of glamour, is that photography is an artform. The rules are there as a guide and not set in stone. Creativity depends on this. If everyone of us were to follow the rules on every shot, photography would be considered a science and not an art. There would never be a new or exciting shot to look at and there would be no point in taking new photos because everything would have already been done. This is where I am in the photography world right now. I am trying new things, breaking rules and trying my damnedest to be the most creative that I can thus creating new images that spark imagination and emotions.

One thing that I thought about was this; our community has forgotten that what matters is the opinion of our client base. This is why I place a super high value on the opinion of the average joe as opposed to that of someone in the industry. See, as photographers, we look at a shot and we look at the lighting, the exposure, the colors, the framing and we determine if the shot is a good shot or a bad shot. We can pick apart any photo and find flaws with any shot that we see. The average joe makes a much simpler assessment of the shot..either I like it or I don't like it.

Take this shot for example:



This is a shot I took of a model that I was working with a few years ago. For one simple reason, she liked this shot...she looked at it and it made her feel pretty. That is the goal (at least my goal). I couldn't tell her that the photo was flawed...I couldn't tell her that her earing hanging messed up lines and made her ear lobe look funny...I couldn't tell her that something in the bg was distracting...I couldn't tell her that some photogs would say that it was over processed...all she cared is that she like it and she felt pretty as a result.

What is my point of this post? Simple. I am not saying that we shouldn't ask for or take advice from other photogs or people involved with the industry, I am saying that we need to take that critisizm with a grain of salt. Out best critics are our clients. If our client base is consistantly saying they like your work, then guess what, you are doing good. If our clients are consistantly saying they don't like your work, then something needs to change.

Regardless, I am a firm believer in the idea that we never stop learning. I have been shooting with models for almost 7 years and, by far, I do not know everything. I have been shooting landscapes and cityscapes for as long as I remember, and I still have shots that don't meet ANYONE'S expectations. I always want to learn! That is all there is to it...but if you are going to give input on somone's work, please make it constructive. Try to look at it both from the eye of a photographer as well as from the eye of a client. Make suggestions as how to improve and please, leave out the personal attacks and useless information.

Thanks for enjoying my little rant...have a nice day! And yes, critisize me!! I know I am a bad speller!!!

Happy shooting all...I should have some new work up soon!!
__________________
Jeremy R. Wirtz
JRW Photography Group
http://www.jrwphotogroup.com
  View Public Profile Send a private message to kjtw Visit kjtw's homepage! Find More Posts by kjtw
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 09:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
icuphotography's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member GG#: 42284
Location: Muskogee
Posts: 319
Comments: 0

icuphotography is offline IP: 74.195.185.106
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I stopped posting here for the same reason.

Once the negatives start everyone jumps on the bandwagon regardless of experience or qualifications.

There is no such thing as positiive criticism in my opinion. It's just criticism unless it offers a critique of what the observer's eyes think they see. And negativity is just about control.

And also I have noticed the criticism seems to often come from the same people who are often the same people offering competitive workshops to RG.
__________________
Remember, remember the 5th of November.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to icuphotography Find More Posts by icuphotography
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 11:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
RobArtLyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Member GG#: 55042
Location: Alexandria
Posts: 411
Comments: 0
My Mood:

RobArtLyn is offline IP: 138.88.125.121
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by icuphotography View Post
And also I have noticed the criticism seems to often come from the same people who are often the same people offering competitive workshops to RG.
Really? How many are there of those here?
  View Public Profile Send a private message to RobArtLyn Find More Posts by RobArtLyn
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 12:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
Capri Photography

 
Jetboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Member GG#: 45764
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 171
Comments: 0
My Mood:

Jetboy is offline IP: 69.152.229.84
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I don't bother sharing any of my work here for the same reason. And honestly, when I see some of the shots posted by the more destructive critics out there I'm generally not impressed. Glamour1 is supposed to be a community of photographers sharing information and helping everyone grow and evolve in the process, but too often that's not the case. I'm not saying critiques should be candy-coated (that doesn't help either), but basically how could the shot be improved? Is there a book/source you'd recommend the photographer reference? Is the critique based on personal preference or technical considerations? If the only work that's acceptable here is "pro" stuff then what's the point?

Alan
__________________
CapriPhotography.com


“Even under the best forms of government, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.” -Thomas Jefferson
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Jetboy Visit Jetboy's homepage! Find More Posts by Jetboy
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 01:05 PM   #5 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Member GG#: 46572
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 90
Comments: 0
My Mood:

kjtw is offline IP: 67.60.31.221
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

It is most photography websites that I have been a part of that have this problem...what spurred my post wasn't anything that happened here at G1, but on another site (although I have had similar happen in the past here). The photography community as a whole needs the remember this!

You are completely correct Jetboy, growth and learning are exactly what these forums should be about. Unfortunately, there are photogs that believe they are all about showing that they are better than others. That is sad.
__________________
Jeremy R. Wirtz
JRW Photography Group
http://www.jrwphotogroup.com
  View Public Profile Send a private message to kjtw Visit kjtw's homepage! Find More Posts by kjtw
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 05:41 PM   #6 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Member GG#: 36639
Location: adelaide
Posts: 76
Comments: 0
Send a message via Skype™ to BarryTreleaven

BarryTreleaven is offline IP: 124.177.177.198
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

It,s called people you know those funny opinionated species who are each unique in there tastes views and monitor colour etc, I do not post that often but get great inspiration of the variety of types of styles etc posted on site as for the negative viewpoints (apart from those who hate each others guts)
which are long gone from this site. when this was GG there were 3 or 4 photographers who had flame out posts to each other often in fact several were banned in the end ,that is not the case now,you will allways get the expert comments you must take them at face value and sort the wheat from the chaff, last year at a camera club interclub comp I put in a portrait which had a large amount of negative space on one side of the landscape print,promptly told it was no good and broke all the rules!(one i learnt from here) and ended up getting 2nd for the night, was i surprised not really Ithought it was a good shot ,you have to go with your gut feeling,if people don,t buy them or compliment your efforts them its back to the drawing board
one thing i have learnt is you never stop learning and Iam very wary of the i,ve been shooting for 40 years syndrome(with nothing to back it up) now if Icould post images up i would place a shot under this but for some reason i find this almost impossible to do(my inability as a ludite lurker)
  View Public Profile Send a private message to BarryTreleaven Visit BarryTreleaven's homepage! Find More Posts by BarryTreleaven
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 06:45 PM   #7 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Member GG#: 37608
Location: Cedar Rapids
Posts: 340
Comments: 0

Mark_Oehler is offline IP: 12.226.28.159
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
If our client base is consistantly saying they like your work, then guess what, you are doing good. If our clients are consistantly saying they don't like your work, then something needs to change.
I agree with the first part; second -- maybe not.

There is some stuff I shoot for just me. If not one else cares for it..I'm okay with it. Maybe it will make me famous when I'm dead....then I'll be rich (not rice)...oh, wait....

But I agree, a salable photo is more valuable to me than one that my peers revere. I think it is interesting how on istock the highest rated images are not always the highest downloaded ones.

Just my 2˘.

Mark
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Mark_Oehler Visit Mark_Oehler's homepage! Find More Posts by Mark_Oehler
Last edited by Mark_Oehler; 06-24-2008 at 06:52 AM..
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 09:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
Free Member

 
cspmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Member GG#: 42447
Location: Toronto
Posts: 0
Comments: 0
My Mood:

cspmf is offline IP: 99.234.133.242
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

What a great rant!
I agree with your comments in this post and those of others. I have been lurking around here for a few years. I read almost all the forums on G1 as well as those on Shot Critic. Every once in a while someone goes off on an ego tantrum, but I find for the most part our members genuinely are very helpful and some go way out of there way to help both pros and nubees. Things usually get heated because people in general have a hard time expressing what they mean in text, or can't take the time to express there constructive critisism in words as well as in a conversation. I have learned a great deal from these two sites and I hope to see more people like yourself with the same thoughts come back and new members with your attitude join.

Learning is what G1 is all about to me.

P.S. As you can see in these posts not many of us can spell or type that well. It took me forever to put this little paragraph together!!

Rant Away Guys!

But please keep posting so I can keep learning!!
Regards,
Claudio
  View Public Profile Send a private message to cspmf Find More Posts by cspmf
Last edited by cspmf; 06-23-2008 at 09:47 PM.. Reason: Spelling errors
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-23-2008, 10:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Member GG#: 46572
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 90
Comments: 0
My Mood:

kjtw is offline IP: 67.60.31.221
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Oehler View Post
I agree with the first part; second -- maybe not.

There is some stuff I shoot for just me. If not one else cares for it..I'm okay with it. Maybe it will make me famous when I'm dead....then I'll be rice...oh, wait....

But I agree, a salable photo is more valuable to me than one that my peers revere. I think it is interesting how on istock the highest rated images are not always the highest downloaded ones.

Just my 2˘.

Mark
I definately agree with you Mark on the second part. There are some shots that I have done that I absolutely love, but everyone else (clients and photogs alike) did not find pleasing. These are the ones that adorn my walls in my home.

You are dead on with iStock...just think, people in the industry review these shots and yet, the clients are the ones that decide what gets downloaded the most. Totally agree...thought that I would expound on your idea a bit!

When GG became G1, I was not happy. I really liked GG and didn't give G1 much of a chance. However, I think, from what I have seen lately, things are not much different except in a good way. There are still a lot of really good post that can be learned from without as much ego as you called it.
__________________
Jeremy R. Wirtz
JRW Photography Group
http://www.jrwphotogroup.com
  View Public Profile Send a private message to kjtw Visit kjtw's homepage! Find More Posts by kjtw
 
Re: A little rant...
Old 06-24-2008, 02:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
Free Member

 
bc_shutterbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Member GG#: 48023
Location: Courtenay
Posts: 172
Comments: 1

bc_shutterbug is offline IP: 70.66.199.175
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Jeremy: Great post... most of which I tend to agree with. Of course, we all have different experiences depending on where we've been and how much we post.

I must admit that I'm here more to admire and aspire than to critique or seek critiques... but I've ventured out onto the limb a few times. My experience is more one of silence (and not just here) rather than negative comments. I wait patiently, and sooner or later, someone ventures an opinion, then others chime in.

Remember high school dances... the guys all on one wall.... the gals on the other. And nobody on the dance floor. Until one couple bravely takes the spotlight for a few minutes and then the party gets going. That's how I see photo critiques. Nobody wants to go first. But eventually, someone has to.

But in the long run, I have received GREAT ideas and suggestions from those that have ventured into that spotlight... and continue to thank and respect them daily as I aspire to improve my photography... an adventure I hope will last for many more years.

Cheers all.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to bc_shutterbug Visit bc_shutterbug's homepage! Find More Posts by bc_shutterbug
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Short Rant isaiahbrink Off Topic 11 07-22-2011 06:35 PM
GG email with Robert Farber contests (RANT) JUSTA_NEWBIE Main Community Forum 3 04-03-2009 05:08 AM
Time for a rant... Al_Nowak Main Community Forum 6 02-26-2006 04:50 PM
Can you say customer service!!! (rant) on another site. Ron_C Main Community Forum 11 02-07-2006 06:16 PM
A tiny rant! Fantasiesimage Main Community Forum 30 02-02-2006 12:23 AM

Sponsors


New To Site? Need Help? Photographer & Model Links
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:15 PM.

© 1999-2017 Garage Glamour™




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93