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REALLY, need some advice...
Old 04-30-2008, 10:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I hope I'm posting this to the right forum. Long story short; do you give clients their untouched, unfinished phots from a photoshoot if they ask for them?
I started working with a modeling agency; along with the 5 or so shots the model pays for, the agency is also asking me to provide the models with the rest of the unfinished photos from the shoot.
Am I the only one to have a problem with this: It's my very expensive camera and lens and lights and time, and I'm supposed to just give all my hard work away? With all the digital photo editing programs available on most computers today, what's to stop the person from taking the image home and edtiting them themselves. I only touch up the 5 they want, the majority of the rest of the images are all good too, they just require a couple tweeks in sharpness, or contrast and they're good to go too.
Or worse yet, what if someone posts a really terrible photo, the one with the pole sticking out of the models head or something, one that should have been thrown away and they give you the photo credit?
I told the agency I was going to add PROOF on each unfinised photo and they told me I couldn't do that because when the model pays for the shoot, she is suppused to get ALL the images.
My solution is, all unfinished photos will be added to the disc in 72dpi low res.
Please help me out with this, I know I'm not the first photographer to encounter this issue. Any advice or ideas will be really appreciated. Thanks..
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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-01-2008, 12:58 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Don't let the lunatics run the assylum! Make your rules for your business and stick to them thru thick and thin. You'll be better off for it
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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-01-2008, 01:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree. Make your own rules. It's a tough call. If you tellthem how it is andthey don't like it they may let you go in favour in someone, probably less skilled, who WILL do as they ask. I've actually had that happen. The agency wanted things delivered at a certain price and while we were JUST going to break even that wasn't why we were doing the job. We still needed to make a profit and that wasn't going to happen. We told them it could only be donefor a certain amount, they didn't like that, so we left.

You have to make that decision. If yougo to them and explain why you want things a certain way, they SHOULD understand. If not, move on.


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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-01-2008, 06:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sounds to me like there should be such a thing as a CONTRACT involved in this somewhere. If there is, I'd look at it and see what it says. If there isn't, then there should be, and what the photograher is to deliver should be spelled out clearly, and what the compensation terms are should also be spelled out clearly. If the contract doesn't address it specificaly, then it should be.
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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-01-2008, 07:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I once dealt with a model agency that was run by a woman who never got to be a model herself yet thought she could make it in this business. Bottom line, she had no clue as to what she was doing and what the standard business practices are.

If the agency wants photos, fine. They can buy them or discount their fee for the model, but in any event put it in the contract. Under no circumstances would I let rough images go out, for the very reasons you gave.
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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-01-2008, 05:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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In the past it was common to provide a proof sheet to the model as part of the deal. Since they couldn't make a good print by copying that there was no problem. The model got to see how she got to the good pose and it was a learning experience for her. I am all for providing that.

Standard digital files are much more. These files can be used on multiple model pages and web sites with no compensation or credit to you. That is not what we want. So go ahead and offer and include a digital proof sheet of all the images. Just make sure that is all you do.

Make very tiny files that fall apart when they are copied, have the **** data in them too that shows they are copyrighted, and even show a watermark if they try to use them. Print them up 8 to a page and on that page have a paragraph that explains your rights. The full up-8 shot page, is one file, not individual files of each image and the whole page is a low resolution jpeg only suitable for viewing on a monitor. When they try to blow up one image, it will fall apart.
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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-01-2008, 10:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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My best advice is to keep the original files, and make sure that you get something in writing. Besides, if you're like me, and shoot in RAW, then most people can't open, but that's besides the point. If they give you any grief, time to move on.
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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-02-2008, 12:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavatown View Post
... the majority of the rest of the images are all good too, they just require a couple tweeks in sharpness, or contrast and they're good to go too.

Or worse yet, what if someone posts a really terrible photo, the one with the pole sticking out of the models head or something, one that should have been thrown away and they give you the photo credit?
I know I'm definitely a minority opinion on this, but the notion that someone might see the other images should be a fantastic incentive to shoot them all correctly in the camera... but that's not the way it works, is it? Nobody erases the bad ones in the camera... at least nobody I know.
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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-02-2008, 03:12 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Al,
You seem to be missing the point; I did say all the images are good.... I just don't think it's right when a person pays for 5 " finished" images by me, than goes home with a disc of 50 other images and someone else finishes them. So in reality they pay for 5 and gets 55. THAT'S my issue...Your absolutly right, and I think everyone on this board would agree with you... "they all should be shot correctly out of the camera". In a perfect world they would be, but sometimes through no ones fault, lights act up, reflectors get bumped by someone, things happen and you don't catch it instantly. Yes, you fix it after you've taken the shot and realize something went wrong, but don't always erase it off the card, for as you know, sometimes those really strangely lit photos can be very interesting and with a little artistic creativity can turn out really cool. But without your artistic touch, they are just bad pictures. And personally, I don't want to see that bad picture turn up somewhere with my name attached to it.
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Re: REALLY, need some advice...
Old 05-02-2008, 11:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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My remarks were only directed at your comment of having images with poles coming out of a model's head.

As to whether the models should get all the images or only five, I would think that issue would be fully settled before the first shot was taken. Apparently not though...

You didn't mention whether the models have some choice in the selection of the five or not. I can see some rationale to giving them at least a look at the images; they might prefer others, or have a potential use for them. Some photographers won't even allow the client to see the other images...
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