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It's gone too far....
Old 02-03-2008, 06:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I saw this article today http://hamptonroads.com/node/452689 and I was stunned. The Virginia Beach PD arrested an Abercrombie and Fitch store manager for displaying "obscene materials in a business that is open to juveniles." The obscene materials: advertising photos used in their stores throughout the country and on their website. What an outrage.
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-03-2008, 09:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The manager was cited (not arrested). But the story is a sad commentary on how terrified of a breast some people are...
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-04-2008, 08:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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They say it takes all kinds ...
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-04-2008, 03:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The manager was asked to remove them, but would not. A&C said it was not his decision,.. but whatever the case it is much like making a post on any forum that does not follow the rules. The rules in this case are in the form of a city ordinance.

If a person posts something on this or any other forum, that is against the rules, about all that can happen is they will have the post removed or if they continue to violate the rules they will be banned. The city cannot ban A&C, they do have the power to arrest or issue a citation.

Ok, now to the inevitable discussion about whether the images in the store were obscene or not. That issue would be similar (once again) to a post that was removed because it was considered porn. There would be those who would say it was and those who say no, and always there would be those who would say that porn cannot be defined. It would be up to an administrator. In the case of A&C it will be up to ??whomever?

The images in A&C were in full view of everyone. I have seen images removed from forums that had similar amount of skin and "inuendo" , and naturally some people got upset.

For those people who go to malls, should they not have the same right to NOT see that as those who want to see it?
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-05-2008, 09:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenE View Post
For those people who go to malls, should they not have the same right to NOT see that as those who want to see it?
I think Ben is afraid of boobs.

Seriously, though. I'll answer your question with a question. Who gets to decide what is offensive?
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-05-2008, 10:18 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotosbyChuck View Post
I think Ben is afraid of boobs.

Seriously, though. I'll answer your question with a question. Who gets to decide what is offensive?
According to the Supreme Court, each community decides such issues for themselves. So the community in question has passed at some point an ordinance that prohibits certain things being displayed in the presence of minors.
cheers,
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-05-2008, 10:38 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotosbyChuck View Post
I think Ben is afraid of boobs.

Seriously, though. I'll answer your question with a question. Who gets to decide what is offensive?
It is not a matter of being afraid of boobs. It is a matter of having respect for more views than my own. I can respect a person's views on most anything, IF they will respect mine. To make it clear, I didn't say it offended me, but I can certainly see where a man or woman who might take their child into the mall would not wish to be exposed to this.

By the way, I find it most interesting that the other image has not even been talked about. The image of the girl with the side of her breast exposed, but covered by her arm. It did not offend me either, but I can assure you it would be offensive to some. The other very interesting thing I noticed is A&F has the same image of the girl on their website, BUT... they have cropped it up much higher than the poster.

Why would they do that?

As I say, why do people who want to force their viewpoint on others usually defend that view by claiming they have the right to express those views wherever and however they wish, but at the same time want to deny anyone else from having an opposing view, or value.

As far as who decides, would be like asking (as I did earlier), who would decide if an image posted on a forum was porn? I have seen that debate (not here), and there were so many ideas of what over what porn was and was not.


...........

Since we are having a civil discussion, please allow me to present this scenario, with no offense intended.

Is the thought of a man and woman having sex offensive? Is an image of that act offensive. Would it be offensive if it was on a poster at A&F?

Would it be an image that would be allowed to remain on most forums? Who would decide if it stayed on a forum? If I saw that image in a store ans asked that it be taken down, would that mean i was afraid of.... anything?
If I posted an image like that and it was removed, would you side with me and claim I had the right to post any image I wished?
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-05-2008, 01:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Civil ordinances are the issue for ads like this, to be sure. Retailers like AF that knowing push boundaries in an effort to get more attention have to expect that some communities will respond like this one.

I don't think private forums make a very good analogy since they are by definition, private. At issue in this case is an image that was publicly displayed.

And while respect for the views of others is wonderful, we all realize that we impose limits for ourselves on such respect. We all make decisions to value or ignore a limit based on whether we think it is reasonable. Is it reasonable to post unquestionable pornography publicly? Not in the opinion of most people, so it's generally illegal. Is it reasonable for teachers to ask children to pray at public schools? Again, not in the opinion of enough people to make that illegal too.

Did AF's ad offend someone? Apparently. Is it offensive enough to be forced out of a Virginia Beach community? The courts can figure that out.

I don't think anyone here is so selfish as to think that only their values matter. We can all pat ourselves on the back for respecting the views of others...at times. When we can see the point from within our own set of values.
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-05-2008, 09:17 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenE View Post
For those people who go to malls, should they not have the same right to NOT see that as those who want to see it?
My understanding is that the images were inside the store, not visible from the outside. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) As shopping at A&F is not a requirement of life and you don't need to go through the store/be exposed to the images to do anything else, the solution for those that are offended is to not shop there/don't take your kids there.

Or, as it is more popularly known in a similar but different context, "Change the channel or just turn it off."
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Re: It's gone too far....
Old 02-05-2008, 11:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalmar View Post
I saw this article today http://hamptonroads.com/node/452689 and I was stunned. The Virginia Beach PD arrested an Abercrombie and Fitch store manager for displaying "obscene materials in a business that is open to juveniles." The obscene materials: advertising photos used in their stores throughout the country and on their website. What an outrage.
It may all be a moot point as the charges have been dropped:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/I...4240514&page=1

By the way, this article also tells that the photos are window display posters so they were visible to children in the mall from outside the store. The article also talks about the $40,000,000 settlement where Abercrombie agreed to pay this sum to settle a discrimination suit against minorities.

Cheers,
rfs
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:08 AM
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