To make G1 a better place..

[jimmyd]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice that activity on this site has become pathetic. I have no idea what the traffic stats are--and maybe there's a lot of traffic going in and out of G1--but, if so, why aren't more people participating? (As they once did.)

I fully understand the adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." G1 ain't broke. Everything seems to work. But the interface is complicated, even for many knowledgeable surfers, and this is the reason so many people complain.

When GG morphed into G1 it was like someone decided to build a more complex mousetrap with many more bells and whistles. But in so doing, was a better mousetrap built? Personally, I don't think so, leastwise from a member's perspective.

There are many reasons so many "old timers" migrated elsewhere. I'm confident the new interface wasn't the only reason and, in fact, wasn't the the premier reason either. (That's a whole other story.) It might be that it wasn't even a reason worth looking at. Even so, that doesn't mean the difficulty many people experience trying to navigate and use this site isn't important to address... and not simply with tutorials and explanations. (As pointed out by BobbyG.)

[bnchrcr]

"As for your statement about reading the new posts each day. What could be easier to do than that on the present G1. You come to the site and you click one button (New Posts) and there all the new posts are. Now you click on each one and read it. There wasn't a New Posts option in the old GG, so you had to go to each individual forum and look for the new posts, or the posts that had new items added to them."

Ah, but you miss my point. Yes, it's easy to read posts here. But the point I was making is that so many people have left, that what used to take me a half hour a day, now only takes five minutes once a week.

[srwatters]

What I find the most disappointing is Rolando's denial that the site was and continues to be in decline. I have raised the point with him publicly and in PM, yet his answer is always that 'G1 has x number of page views per day/week/month'. While that might be a measure of success as an advertiser, as a forum offering information and critique, it has zero bearing IMHO. What counts for me as a participant are posts of substance and input from a diverse membership.

At this point the most frequent poster is RFS. While I appreciate Roger's opinions and information, he is only one voice. There was a time when a new thread might have input from 20+ unique members, both models and photographers. Let's count the number of models that even visit here now. Today most threads are a back and forth discussion between the original poster and RFS. That is one reason for my limited participation.

I certainly wish that Rolando will find the time to support this site as it was one of the main reasons I took up photography several years ago. Perhaps his time has been fractured with the plethora of other sites that he has spun off? Only he can tell.

[R_Fredrick_Smith]

At this point the most frequent poster is RFS.

Actually the most frequent poster is JimmyD.
cheers,
rfs

[jimmyd]

Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith

Actually the most frequent poster is JimmyD.
cheers,
rfs

sure. blame me.

actually, i might have the largest total number of posts but that includes all my posts from GG as well. Since the site morphed, I'm still a more frequent poster than the vast majority of people but I doubt I'm the most frequent poster any longer. (Obviously, I have way too much time on my hands.)

BTW, page views doesn't mean squat. Well, maybe it means something but it doesn't mean all that much. It's a skewed statistic. There are many ways to view traffic--page views, unique visitors, returning visitors--and page views is always going to be the biggest number. Take my blog, for instance. I could immediately double the page views by simply posting the first paragraph of my updates on the main page and then a link to the balance of the update. (Strobist does this with his "after the jump" link.) That would give me twice the page views but doesn't do a thing for increasing actual traffic, i.e., the number of people who visit my site.

In the case of G1, page views are going to be big because of all the forums and posts. There are more forums now than ever and more forums are going to mean more clicks to visit them (i.e., page views) to see the latest posts in the various forums. So of course the page views are going to indicate there is more "traffic" now than when it was GG. But that kind of traffic doesn't equate to actual activity and participation

I'd like to see a graph that plots activity and participation, as in posts and responses to initial posts. It's those follow-on posts that are of most interest to the members. And those kinds of posts have definitely declined in a big way!

[lsc1]

Originally Posted by srwatters

I certainly wish that Rolando will find the time to support this site as it was one of the main reasons I took up photography several years ago. Perhaps his time has been fractured with the plethora of other sites that he has spun off? Only he can tell.

I agree with most everything except this. RG has put a lot into this site but it takes more than RG or RFS to make G1 a vibrant place to interact again. MM is a very vibrant site and rarely do you see posts from it's founder Tyler except to apologize for the site speed an promise new servers and fixes. I'm not saying MM is better, just more active.

I think the reality of diminishing participation is a combination of things but central to the issue may be the idea that photographers may want to hang out where the chicks hang out. Not much different than high school in that respect but seriously, MM is set up to attract models and I think that makes a difference. WAY more drama there but you have to get your entertainment somewhere right?!

There have been some controversial figures, but excellent photographers, who left and very few new ones to fill their void. Hence the quality and quantity of postings has gone down. It can go back up but something WILL have to change.

[jimmyd]

LSC-- Your MM/High School analogy is appropriate in so many ways. That's why I don't hang there much. I doubt too many serious shooters want G1 to become a clone of MM. If this place became as populated with wannabees and posers as MM is, you'd rarely see me here. I'm not saying there aren't serious shooters and legit models on MM, there are, I'm just saying there's an abundance who aren't and it is sooooooo tedious trying to distinguish who's who in those departments.

[R_Fredrick_Smith]

Originally Posted by jimmyd

sure. blame me.

actually, i might have the largest total number of posts but that includes all my posts from GG as well. Since the site morphed, I'm still a more frequent poster than the vast majority of people but I doubt I'm the most frequent poster any longer. (Obviously, I have way too much time on my hands.)

BTW, page views doesn't mean squat. Well, maybe it means something but it doesn't mean all that much. It's a skewed statistic. There are many ways to view traffic--page views, unique visitors, returning visitors--and page views is always going to be the biggest number. Take my blog, for instance. I could immediately double the page views by simply posting the first paragraph of my updates on the main page and then a link to the balance of the update. (Strobist does this with his "after the jump" link.) That would give me twice the page views but doesn't do a thing for increasing actual traffic, i.e., the number of people who visit my site.

In the case of G1, page views are going to be big because of all the forums and posts. There are more forums now than ever and more forums are going to mean more clicks to visit them (i.e., page views) to see the latest posts in the various forums. So of course the page views are going to indicate there is more "traffic" now than when it was GG. But that kind of traffic doesn't equate to actual activity and participation

I'd like to see a graph that plots activity and participation, as in posts and responses to initial posts. It's those follow-on posts that are of most interest to the members. And those kinds of posts have definitely declined in a big way!

Same thing for me about the posts, it carried over my post counts from GG. Here are the stats for the two of us (name, date joined, # of posts):

JimmyD 03-12-2004 3,784
R_Fredrick_Smith 06-04-2003 3,655

Which all just goes to say that we have a lot to say!

You're right about how page views get blown out of proportion, just like hits are often blown way out of proportion. The importance of page views is the revenue it creates from ads that are paid for by "impressions". In other words one gets paid for how many times the ad is shown and naturally more page views is better in that case. Even PPCs benefit from more page views, because that increases the odds of someone clicking on a PPC ad.

You can go to the Members option link and sort by Posts to get an idea of who the big posters are and when they last visited the site. There are other stats on the Home page and the bottom of the Main Forums page.

My informal posts per day stats show an average of about 60 posts per day. In the last 3 1/2 days we have had 220 posts. I would like to query the database to get exact stats, but the dates are stored in a non-documented format in the mySQL files and so I can't do a query by date ranges directly and the original PHP code has hidden the algorithm on how the date is being saved and I haven't been able to find it. One of the wonderful blessings of undocumented code that was written by a committee over a long period of time with little thought to readability.

Cheers,
rfs

[srwatters]

Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith

Actually the most frequent poster is JimmyD.

Perhaps I should have been more detailed in my statement (although you knew exactly the point I was making).

Restated:

Since the change from GG to G1, it is my feeling that RFS has made the most posts on the forum.

[srwatters]

Originally Posted by lsc1

RG has put a lot into this site but it takes more than RG or RFS to make G1 a vibrant place to interact again.

I'll agree that it takes more than Rolando's participation to make G1 a vibrant place, but does anyone else remember the time when Rolando would actively promote GG? I guess that was the point I was trying to make. While his active participation isn't required, there needs to be a champion that will help promote the site to bring in new active members. At least that's what I think. And that opinion is worth precisely what you paid for it