Photographers, I Need Your Feedback :::

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith

There doesn't seem to be any context for what you're saying above. You started this thread and I didn't see any attacks referred to.

BenE says... " To be honest, $400 seems like a lot of money to sit and look at naked girls and take note. "

BenE has never been to one of my workshops. He has no idea what my workshop entails. And yet - he thinks it's appropriate to post that comment. That is what I was referring to. Sitting around looking at naked girls and taking notes is not what my program is all about.

Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith

So your response to my post, comes off in my view, as somewhat of an attack on me, which is unfair, in my view, because I didn't say anything about he cost of your workshop nor did I criticize your workshop.

Cheers,
rfs

Boy - how fast things can get out of hand huh? Why would I attack you?

You said you were "puzzled" why I felt the need to "argue" when I asked for feedback. Well, I told you why. This is no attack on you - this is an answer to your comment about being puzzled. What is so puzzling about replying to negative and unwarranted comments about my program? I asked folks if they would give me their feedback and answer two simple questions. Next thing you know I have people telling me that my program is not worth $400 if all people do is sit around looking at naked girls. This statement is not accurate regarding what my program is all about. When I replied - you suddenly got puzzled why I would "argue".

I'm not attacking you - I'm as "puzzled" as you are. I asked for feedback on two simple questions and yet I get attacked. When I respond to the attacks - you want to tell me how puzzled you are that I responded. Maybe you should just delete the whole thread. That way - I don't have to defend my program against people who want to attack it without any knowledge of how it's run or what it's about - and you won't be puzzled anymore.

Thanks,

-Dean

[R_Fredrick_Smith]

I think there is some basic confusion here. And we have the cart before the horse in part of this discussion. First, I made my reply to your original post which came before BenE made his remarks. So my remarks were about your post. You say that I shouldn't be puzzled by your original post and your argument is because BenE said it was too expensive, but that is in a response to your original post. So that was what I was trying to say confused me about your post. In other words you made your statements to which I suggested puzzlement in the original post of the thread before BenE made his statement, so your statement that the puzzling items (to me) were in the post was because of what BenE said, but he hadn't said it yet when you wrote your original post to which I responded. Do you see my confusion or puzzlement point?

But then you say this in response to my Post (and you start your post with a extract from my post and you address it directly to me at the start of your response):

Folks, I'm very interested in your feedback to my "two simple questions." I am not interested in listening to you attack me or my workshop if you don't know what your talking about. I find it offensive for someone to critique my workshop who has never been to my workshop and has no idea what my workshop entails.

Since this was a response to "my" post, who else could I assume the "you" was in your statement? You say "I am not interested in listening to you attack me ...". If that's not attack on me, then what is it? And I went into considerable detail trying to address your two questions, and you didn't even acknowledge any of the points I made about those questions (even though you said your were "very interested in your feedback").

So now, I hope, my puzzlement issue is better understood!

Cheers,
rfs

[Ms. Muffy]

What I would like to know is if there are many female photographers that attend these workshops. My husband and myself are both into photography, and would one day like to attend a workshop. I think that, of course, I would want to watch other photographers who have a lot more knowledge and take notes, etc. If I did have the opportunity to shoot some models, I would simply like to have some of my photos critiqued.

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith

So now, I hope, my puzzlement issue is better understood!

Well, not really. I'm more confused (or puzzled) now than ever before. Let me just say this:

I am interested in any constructive criticism about my workshop by folks who have been to one of my workshops. In fact, I always send out an email asking for feedback from people who have actually experienced one of my workshops. I am NOT interested in any kind of criticism about my workshops from folks who have never been to one or who have no firsthand knowledge of how my workshops are run. How someone thinks that they could accurately critique my workshops without actually attending one is beyond me. Sitting around looking at naked girls and taking notes is NOT what my workshop is about. I came here and asked folks to answer 2 simple questions - and this is what it's turned into

If any of you want to answer the two questions - that would be greatly appreciated.

Question #1: "Do you feel that you cannot get your moneys worth at a workshop unless you are able to shoot some girls at the workshop?"

Question #2: "What would be the ideal workshop for you?"

These are simple questions that can be answered in a simple sentence or two. No need to go into detail about your thoughts on how my program is structured - the price of my program or anything else regarding my program. I don't need to know if you don't think my program is worth the money. I've had enough people tell me that they got their monies worth in the first few hours of my program. I've had enough people tell me that I should be charging twice what I charge. I am not interested in what you think about my program "especially" if you've never been to one of my programs.

I think maybe some of you have been ripped off so bad at other workshops that now you think that all workshops are too expensive for the info you get in return. Sadly, I've been to many workshops myself where I didn't think I got what I paid for. That's the reason that I put up a testimonials page on my site...so that those thinking about attending can read what others have to say about my program.

By the way...be sure to tune in to my show on Sunday (GlamPod.com) - I'm going to get into more detail about my thoughts on this issue.

[R_Fredrick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Ms. Muffy

What I would like to know is if there are many female photographers that attend these workshops. My husband and myself are both into photography, and would one day like to attend a workshop. I think that, of course, I would want to watch other photographers who have a lot more knowledge and take notes, etc. If I did have the opportunity to shoot some models, I would simply like to have some of my photos critiqued.

I can't answer as far as Dean's workshops, but for the Rolando Gomez workshops, I can, since I've attended a number of them. Yes, there are women photographers that attend and in at least one case it was a husband and wife team. And yes, that is one of the benefits of shooting models at the workshops, in that you can get professional critiques right then and at the workshop make the changes suggested. So you get very immediate feedback from that method. This works better in longer workshops such as RG's 4 day Virgin Island programs.

There are several different ways that people learn. One way is by listening and taking notes. Another way is by listening and then doing and then getting feedback at the time. Teachers usually try to cater to these two learning modes and to the extent conditioins allow them to do this, the better the results.

I conducted workshops for many years (but in the computer programming arena) and I always had to walk a tightrope of how much lecture and how much hands on, to meet the needs of these two learning types. Some people were able to "get it" just from the lecture part. Others had to do the hands on and then get the immediate feedback, and then try again.

Cheers,
rfs

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by Ms. Muffy

What I would like to know is if there are many female photographers that attend these workshops.

I've had females attend my workshops - no problems at all!

There are lots of very talented female shooters out there.

Plus... two of my three photo-assistants are females

[DanNV]

Originally Posted by DeanCapture

"Do you feel that you cannot get your moneys worth at a workshop unless you are able to shoot some girls at the workshop?"

"What would be the ideal workshop for you?"

Thanks guys,

-Dean

First, I haven't been to any photography workshops. Nothing has been close enough to get to for a price I could afford at a time when I could go.

Now, for your questions.

1) No, I don't think I could get my money's worth without getting in some shooting. Assuming the workshop is about photographing girls, that would mean getting shoot pictures of girls. Not getting to shoot any pictures strikes me as like taking a marksmanship class and not getting to fire a weapon.

2) For me, it would be one wher techniques are demonstrated and then I get to play with them with the assistance of someone who has a better clue than I. That would mean more models and some mentors, too. I don't think a single instracutor, a model and a bunch pf photographers all waiting in line is likely to make a good workshop.

I'm not a person who learns from ust lecture. I can learn theory that way, but I need hands-on instruction to learn how to apply it. If all I want is theory, I can find lots of that at the book store.

Dan

[jimmyd]

Personally, Dean, I think when someone asks for specific feedback on anything from workshops to images they might consider, whether they agree with the responses or not, simply thanking everyone for taking the time to provide said feedback and--no dis intended--shutting the f__k up. I know it ain't easy to do sometimes but that's my opinion.

[Brennans_Photography]

Dean,
I agree with DanNv above 100%. Long before this thread was started, I checked out your website about this workshop. What really turned me off were two things. First, no cameras were allowed. I don't think I would want to attend a workshop where my camera wasn't allowed for me to follow along during the instructions. Second, the website says, “I” (meaning you) will be taking the photos. This told me, I was not going to be able to do the same thing. One problem with that is, that I have a 30% memory disability (resulting from a car accident) and would never be able to retain what you are teaching me without doing it myself soon after being instructed to do it.
As far as the cost goes, your instruction may very well be worth it, but to me, bringing home a few photos for my portfolio is very important as well. This will help with the catch 22 that RFS speaks of.
I too, like DanNv, have never attended a workshop. Although, I am saving to attend one soon! Hopefully it will be Rolando’s Exotic Glamour, Beauty & the Nude workshops, in the Virgin Islands. I do believe you get to use your photos from his workshop for your own portfolio.

Pete

[DeanCapture]

Originally Posted by jimmyd

Personally, Dean, I think when someone asks for specific feedback on anything from workshops to images they might consider, whether they agree with the responses or not, simply thanking everyone for taking the time to provide said feedback and--no dis intended--shutting the f__k up. I know it ain't easy to do sometimes but that's my opinion.

Hi Jimmy - that's very easy for you to say since no one was attacking something of yours. This has nothing to do with me agreeing or disagreeing to the responses. This has to do with someone talking out their ass about my workshop and they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. If folks would have stuck to the questions - everything would have been fine. When people start offering up their opinions about things I didn't ask for - and doing it in a very negative way - I need to stand up and say something about it. Maybe you don't agree with how I handled it and that's fine. I'm not going to "shut the f__k up" and let someone talk negatively about me or my program when it's uncalled for and unwarranted.

Cheers,

-Dean