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An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-11-2007, 10:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Hey, I haven't seen a good rant in a while... and this ain't gonna be one, maybe...

But I do have this itch, at least that's what I'm calling it, and if I vent it here, maybe I'll get past it without scratching.

I picked up the latest Vogue Italia. Now I realize most of you don't read it, can't find it on the newstand, and don't really give a #$%& about it. Besides it's about $20 an issue, ridiculous!

But anyway, I lugged the thing home, all 8 pounds of it, and started going through it. The lead story is a long fashion spread by Steven Meisel called Make Love, Not War. Now remember this is an Italian fashion magazine.

Anyway, the main spread is set in what appears to be a forward fire base in Vietnam with American GI's. Why do I say that? Well, 101st Airborne is kinda specific, and the mud (lots of it!) looks like you'd expect to see in 'Nam.

The fashions are on the requisite delectable young ladies who are shown cavorting with the GI's, often in clinches with them, and in several shots topless.

My itch is that somehow this just don't seem right. I haven't figured out just why yet... but I have a real strong suspicion this pictorial wouldn't play well in Dubuque.

But it's not in Dubuque, it's in an Italian fashion magazine trying to peddle a few frocks to the wealthy.

There are a hell of a lot of other places in the world that those frocks could have been photographed and nobody would give a damn. A lot of our troops died in that tragic fiasco.

So whaddo you think, am I off base here, does this not seem inappropriate? Or do you care?
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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-12-2007, 01:05 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_Nowak View Post
...My itch is that somehow this just don't seem right. I haven't figured out just why yet... but I have a real strong suspicion this pictorial wouldn't play well in Dubuque....There are a hell of a lot of other places in the world that those frocks could have been photographed and nobody would give a damn. A lot of our troops died in that tragic fiasco.
Al,

There's another irony in all this - the Italian media seem to be very anti-American military with regards to the current (mis)adventures in Afghanistan and Iraq - is this just another way of tweaking our noses, or?

But, if you're suggesting that just because over 50,000 troops died in Vietnam that no one can use a faux military setting because it's disrespectful, then wouldn't that seem to rule out any shots that show New York's east river view of Manhattan as well, for the same reason? Somehow, I don't think that's going to work.
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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-12-2007, 08:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If these are the photos: http://maxwelld.livejournal.com/106615.html then I would have to say I do not think they're inappropriate.

I don't even think the photos are intended to be Vietnam. The clothing is not period (olive drab or tiger stripe) -- the soldiers are wearing modern desert fatigues and helmets. The map in the tent is not even of the Asian continent. It looks like an old map of the middle east -- which might be symbolic of a return to the Crusades. In some of the shots, a GI holding a digital camera in others a modern video camera.

These are clearly intended to be modern soldiers. I see no deliberate parallel to Vietnam in the photos. I wasn't there -- perhaps you were, so I'll defer to you if you see something specific.

I liked the photos -- and I'm American. After all, it's not often you see our soldiers muddying up Cavalli and Versace!
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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-12-2007, 11:28 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I dunno, but it looks middle eastern-ish to me and as others have commented the uniforms, etc are definately contemporary. ctually I sort of like the spread, the shots are creative and damned well done.
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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-12-2007, 11:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n5wd View Post

But, if you're suggesting that just because over 50,000 troops died in Vietnam that no one can use a faux military setting because it's disrespectful, then wouldn't that seem to rule out any shots that show New York's east river view of Manhattan as well, for the same reason? Somehow, I don't think that's going to work.
I think there's a significant difference in showing the east river view and showing GI's in battle dress in clinches with half naked babes. Now, suppose you took pictures of a bunch of NYFD firefighters in full gear grappling with some babes with the east river in the back ground, would you still say it's okay?

As I said, I haven't figured out exactly what gives me the itch, the possible disrespect for the dead, the whole military thing, or something else. I'd really hate to believe we gotten to the point where we'll accept "Ann Frank's Secret Wardrobe" as a fashion spread...

Let me comment on some other things.mentioned. I saw the map of Africa in the pictorial. I wondered what they were trying to imply with it... maybe the Mogadishu misadventure, but I came to the conclusion, it was just convenient.

As for the uniforms, well, I guess I missed that, but I still think most people looking at the images would conclude it was Vietnam era...

Maybe the bigger question is are there ANY limits as to where you can go with fashion photographs?
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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-12-2007, 12:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Very good magazine. I'm a regular buyer of both the French and Italian versions.
Neither one as conservative or shy about showing or telling a story the way it should be told in the American version.

Anyway, the story you're seeing in that issue, looks like soldiers from the 3rd special forces group. ("The 3rd Special Forces Group was activated at Fort Bragg, North Carolina in 1990. They are globally assigned to parts of the Caribbean and the continent of Africa.")

Foreign internal defense, operations are designed to help friendly developing nations by working with host country military and police forces to improve their technical skills, understanding of human rights issues and to help with humanitarian and civic action projects.

The map of Africa and the chocolate chips uniform is a dead giveaway.
No relations to Vietnam or Iraq.
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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-12-2007, 12:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Get on with your life.. If you're going to let something like that get to you, you will forever be wondering why you aren't enjoying life.. FaGet'BoutIt..
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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-12-2007, 07:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well, I was born and raised in Dubuque and I am a Viet Nam Veteran so I guess I can say something.

Gee, all I can think of is, "Oh how I wish I had a day like that back then."

Otherwise, nothing really comes to mind.
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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-13-2007, 08:44 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Well, I was born and raised in Dubuque and I am a Viet Nam Veteran so I guess I can say something.

Gee, all I can think of is, "Oh how I wish I had a day like that back then."
Ya mean your momma-san didn't look like that when she gently knocked on your hootch door to bring you room service in the morning?

http://img149.imagevenue.com/view.ph...122_1141lo.jpg

Oh, wait! You musta been in the Army or a Marine, right? Not like us Air Force pukes!

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Re: An itch that needs scratching...
Old 10-13-2007, 08:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_Nowak View Post
I think there's a significant difference in showing the east river view and showing GI's in battle dress in clinches with half naked babes. Now, suppose you took pictures of a bunch of NYFD firefighters in full gear grappling with some babes with the east river in the back ground, would you still say it's okay?
Works for me! Of course, some politically-correct puke in the Public Relations office might have a different view, but...
Quote:
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Maybe the bigger question is are there ANY limits as to where you can go with fashion photographs?
When the average customer becomes so offended that they stop buying whatever is being sold... you've reached the limit. Till then, if you're offended, don't buy the dress!
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