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couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-29-2007, 04:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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just to show what you guys are missing !!

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couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop 


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couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop 


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Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-29-2007, 02:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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somehow I'll live.

ditch the excessive photoshop, make the images nice in camera.

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Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-29-2007, 04:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Make them nice in the camera from the start and you don't have to correct things in photoshop... unless of course you want to clean up the mid-section of a model like in your picture to take out that little crease that goes across above the navel that gives the appearance of a pooch tummy.

Photoshop has its place and to knock the use of it while posting a picture that would definately be enhanced by using it seems a little silly.

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Old 07-29-2007, 07:39 PM
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Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-30-2007, 08:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You are right, to an extent. When it comes to trying to conceal problems like the appearance of a pooch tummy as seen by your model, then I am all for it. You may not have a problem with your model not looking as good as possible and you may choose to leave problems like I mentioned above.

Maybe it's something you didn't catch while shooting? Why let an oversight ruin a photo when it can be easily remedied? Of course I guess when you shot 35mm you never did any dodge or burning in the darkroom. Never underdeveloped or overdeveloped. Never did anything but develop prints at the recommended times?

Try Photoshop sometime.
 
 
Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-30-2007, 12:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jestersncourt View Post
You are right, to an extent. When it comes to trying to conceal problems like the appearance of a pooch tummy as seen by your model, then I am all for it. You may not have a problem with your model not looking as good as possible and you may choose to leave problems like I mentioned above.

Maybe it's something you didn't catch while shooting? Why let an oversight ruin a photo when it can be easily remedied? Of course I guess when you shot 35mm you never did any dodge or burning in the darkroom. Never underdeveloped or overdeveloped. Never did anything but develop prints at the recommended times?

Try Photoshop sometime.

Maybe you should google the name of the guy you are talking to... I think it is a safe bet that he has more credibility in what he says vs what you say.

The OP posted two shots that were way over worked in post. They may have been good before his post work was done but the end result is not in anyway good or useful in the real world.

Glenn's shot on the other hand is a great shot. As IS!
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Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-30-2007, 12:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My issue is not with a critique of the above pictures but casting all people who use photoshop as people who can't get it right in the camera and therefore have to rely on PP.

He is entitled to his opinion, obviously, but it is a silly one. P.P. has been going on long before digital and much bigger names than he.

Now you claim that his image is great and in your opinion it may be. In his opinion it may be. But when I first see it I see something that could clearly have been fixed in photoshop that would enhance the photograph. A "great" photograph is debatable.

I don't understand (and maybe it's because I am a nobody) what the problem is with removing a stray hair from a models face in Photoshop, or cleaning up a blemish or two. That does not make the photograph any worse, but according to the O.P. it does.
 
 
Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-30-2007, 01:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jestersncourt View Post
My issue is not with a critique of the above pictures but casting all people who use photoshop as people who can't get it right in the camera and therefore have to rely on PP.

He is entitled to his opinion, obviously, but it is a silly one. P.P. has been going on long before digital and much bigger names than he.

Now you claim that his image is great and in your opinion it may be. In his opinion it may be. But when I first see it I see something that could clearly have been fixed in photoshop that would enhance the photograph. A "great" photograph is debatable.

I don't understand (and maybe it's because I am a nobody) what the problem is with removing a stray hair from a models face in Photoshop, or cleaning up a blemish or two. That does not make the photograph any worse, but according to the O.P. it does.

I will never say that you shouldnt fix a blemish or stray hair in post. I do it all the time. The point that Glenn was making is that if you get it right when you shoot it then you dont need to do that stuff in post. When people rely on PS to fix a problem that could have been fixed during the shoot it is just bad form. In the words of Robert Sanders "Dont shoot what you see.... See what you are shooting"

By that same token, art is very subjective and perhaps he didnt think the crease was an issue in that image. In my opinion it is so minor that to waste the time in PS would be pointless and may end up doing more harm then good.

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Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop 
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Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-30-2007, 01:15 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RSStory View Post
I will never say that you shouldnt fix a blemish or stray hair in post. I do it all the time. The point that Glenn was making is that if you get it right when you shoot it then you dont need to do that stuff in post.
YOU will never say that you shouldn't fix a blemish or stray hair in post. Glenn DID say that. And by saying that it appears that he is condemning all those who do post work. I don't see any other way to take what he said.

OBVIOUSLY the objective is to get everything right in the camera and photograph what you see but as you readily admit, that doesn't always happen. The wind is blowing a bit and a stray hair or two flies in her face as the shutter clicks. Throw the otherwise excellent photograph away or correct the hair in Photoshop? How does that make me less of a photographer? You would say that it doesn't and I would wholeheartedly agree with you! Glenn says that it does make you less of a photographer.

That is what I am objecting to. I am not stating whether the OP's pictures are great, good, or mediocre.

Jeff
 
 
Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-30-2007, 02:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jestersncourt View Post
YOU will never say that you shouldn't fix a blemish or stray hair in post. Glenn DID say that. And by saying that it appears that he is condemning all those who do post work. I don't see any other way to take what he said.

OBVIOUSLY the objective is to get everything right in the camera and photograph what you see but as you readily admit, that doesn't always happen. The wind is blowing a bit and a stray hair or two flies in her face as the shutter clicks. Throw the otherwise excellent photograph away or correct the hair in Photoshop? How does that make me less of a photographer? You would say that it doesn't and I would wholeheartedly agree with you! Glenn says that it does make you less of a photographer.

That is what I am objecting to. I am not stating whether the OP's pictures are great, good, or mediocre.

Jeff
Wow, something must be wrong with my monitor here! All I saw Glenn say was "ditch the excessive photoshop, make the images nice in camera." I completely missed his saying "you shouldn't fix a blemish or stray hair in post," nor the part about "... that it (evidentally removing a stray hair or fixing a blemish) does make you less of a photographer."

Maybe it was stuck between the 59 words he typed up there ... dunno.

The way I read it is avoid the razzle-dazzle and get it right at the click of the shutter. Let the image stand as is, since piling on post-production effects tend to dilute what could have been a great image from the get-go.

Not that there aren't great artists out there building terrific images mostly on the post-production side of things. But in this instance it seems more like salvaging as opposed to reaching a creative concept's destination.

My two cents on it anyway.

Dave
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Re: couple quick shots from Chicago Workshop
Old 07-30-2007, 02:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RSStory View Post
Maybe you should google the name of the guy you are talking to... I think it is a safe bet that he has more credibility in what he says vs what you say.

The OP posted two shots that were way over worked in post. They may have been good before his post work was done but the end result is not in anyway good or useful in the real world.

Glenn's shot on the other hand is a great shot. As IS!
you got a lil white spot on your nose...just there... there you go all brown now!
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