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Job with no direction.
Old 04-25-2007, 08:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I have recently been approached to do a shoot. This shoot is for a local wrestling fighting promoter that sets up fighting venues at local bars. They have in mind to get a collection of "Ring Girls" to help promote the fights. A person I know got involved with helping them and manage the fight promotions and the other involved parties set up a photo shoot. They went into it with no ideas and to me it looked like a bunch of crotch hound guys looking for some girl toys that would allow them to use the girls because they may be niave enough to let them thinking they were going to be models.
Their initial photo shoot went off like an erotic soft porn shoot and many of the girls left and those that didn't got very angry. That is when the first photographer was, for want of better words, fired. i was asked if I would do it and I said I would consider it if the shoot consisted of no one except the girls, and no non-essential personel, e.g. the wrestling crotch hound promoters. When I said this I also believed they at least had a scope of what they needed out of a photo shoot, I was wrong.
The problem is they still have no direction as to what they want for end products and with the amount of girls they have, 20, I think it is too many. I suggested, cause they were allowing the girls to wear anything they wanted, at least a common outfit or series of outfits that followed a common theme.
At this point I have only the idea to do portrait shots and one prop set up of an octagonal ring, with the girls hanging on the ropes. I have never done anything of this type and could really use some ideas.

Please help.

signed pulling out hair I no longer have...

hehe

Robear
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Re: Job with no direction.
Old 04-25-2007, 10:02 PM   #2 (permalink)
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People who are not in the photo biz do not know how to coordinate such things. You have to come up with a couple ideas and even show them photos. Prepare to do a sales speech if one idea you are passionate about. You could turn this into a personal project you like instead of something daunting.
>
Why not do a Tim Sanders take off like he did with porn stars ?
>
http://www.luminous-lint.com/__sw.ph...&p2=0821277545
>
Based on what the last shooter did you would have to be prepared to convince them it would be tasteful.. Maybe have them hold ring card numbers over themselves... Shot it ala Avedon in cyc studio..
>
Could be a win win...
>
Good luck
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Re: Job with no direction.
Old 04-26-2007, 01:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The situation has disaster in flashing neon letters. You don't indicate what you are being paid or what your benefit from all this would be. I would NEVER consider doing this, or working with these people, unless it was absolutely clear what they wanted, what I would do, what the girls would get/expect, and I had ABSOLUTE control over the shoot.

There is potential for the photographer harming his own reputation, discord between the promoters and the photographer, discord between the girls and the promoters/photographer, and even, depending on details litigation.

By the way, the poster hasn't given details on who would have copyright, what the model releases would be, the use of the photos, or almost anything else.
 
 
Re: Job with no direction.
Old 04-27-2007, 03:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I agree. Dump these bozos but fast. You will always have to deal with clients who need your help in developing a concept or some marketing direction, but since the first photogrpaher got "fired" you're probably asking for the same thing to happen to you if you take the gig.

Consider this. Is there potential damage to your reputation as a profesional, and is the money they're paying worth the risk?
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Re: Job with no direction.
Old 04-27-2007, 07:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I agree with the others, run away from this job.

R
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Re: Job with no direction.
Old 04-27-2007, 07:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I guess I am in the minority?! Embrace this, as another poster said, as a personal project. Sure, you need to get everything in writing to protect yourself, but you should do that anyway.

Show them what a professional photographer does. Obviously these are different girls who haven't worked with these guys before. You have an opportunity to make a client extremely happy and spread your name and good reputation to a new avenue.

They don't know what they want because, again as someone else said, they aren't photographers. Give them a great idea and you may have a client who uses you to regain some trust they lost and may use you for future projects!

Sounds like a great opportunity for you.
Jeff
 
 
Re: Job with no direction.
Old 04-27-2007, 08:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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If the OP has supreme confidence that he can pull this off and run with it, I say go ahead. BUT, if he has the slightest doubt, and judging from his post I think he may have, then he should pass it on to another more experienced photographer and assist that photographer.

That would be a win win.

The OP has to know how to set this up on all levels and take charge. Protect all those involved with proper documentation, contracts, insurance in place, etc.
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Re: Job with no direction.
Old 04-29-2007, 07:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input. I pitched a few ideas at them and when I got to the part about only essential people being at the shoot, they got a tad angry. When I menioned pay, they really got distant. At that I gave them my opinion, basically, that they haven't a clue what they are doing. This shoot should have been done months ago for one, two, they treated the girls like prostitutes with the exception they never paid any of them, and three, it is apparent to me that they are only trying to make people believe they are bigger than they are.

This didn't go over so well. I did have my reputation in mind, and I wasn't gonna let them ruin it. I used to do web sites for dancers and I got all my business by word of mouth. Most of the dancers were of the belief that their sites had to be nudity and I showed them that wasn't the case. This made me many friends that I still have today, I didn't treat them as toys.

If any of you saw the model release these guys were trying to make these girls sign, and a few did, you would flip. It promised nothing of compensation, nothing at all. It was worded in such a way that the girls would be required to do anything that was asked of them. One of the guys even used the release and read it to one of the girls when she refused. Luckily for her he let her read it again and she tore it up. Only copy. And then they fired her.

After I told them my mind I brought up their release and a couple of them laughed and one said that that was what it was for. So I was right, they never intended to pay the girls, they never intended to pay the first photographer and they weren't gonna pay me. Thank god I asked for 5 benjamins up front. They said they wanted to see my work first, I said you did, I showed you some of my work, and their president said, no this work. See you boys...

Thanks guys, best thing I got out of this is some of the girls walked with me. They are considering working with me just for something to do. I am game.

Later all

Robear
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