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"Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-18-2007, 04:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I had a shoot with an agency recently (yes, I have rights to display the images lol) and had the pleasure of working with some great new up and comers. This is a preview of Rachel, will post more later.

This pose was from me, I love this pose, can't recall where I saw it. It works really well with thin models.

The exposure for this shot was really, really difficult and took me like 15minutes to get right, maybe more like 20. As most of us know, one of the very hardest things to do is expose white clothing against a white background. Well, add into that that this girl was really dark and voila, very difficult.



As usual, polite CC&C welcome, thanks
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-18-2007, 06:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPhotoGuy View Post
I As most of us know, one of the very hardest things to do is expose white clothing against a white background. Well, add into that that this girl was really dark and voila, very difficult.



As usual, polite CC&C welcome, thanks
...and I think that is why this image doesn't work. Either her dark skin is showing through the shirt or she has some sort of bra with garment attached to it...but you can definitely see it through the shirt. Also, the pose does not flatter her if she is indeed thin (which I am guessing she is)...This pose tends to widen her. I would also suggest getting your lens ABOVE her eyeline...the angle you have taken is too much "up the nose" IMO...the lighting is good, but overall this one needs much improvement...
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-18-2007, 10:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G View Post
...and I think that is why this image doesn't work. Either her dark skin is showing through the shirt or she has some sort of bra with garment attached to it...but you can definitely see it through the shirt. Also, the pose does not flatter her if she is indeed thin (which I am guessing she is)...This pose tends to widen her. I would also suggest getting your lens ABOVE her eyeline...the angle you have taken is too much "up the nose" IMO...the lighting is good, but overall this one needs much improvement...
Yes, it's her bra... that's what she wore with this outfit. I disagree with most everything else you said; she is quite thin and this pose shows that off very well. It's definitely not an "up-the-nose" shot by any stretch (definitely disagree on that), it's a 3/4 length and the shot was taken at an appropriate height for a 3/4 length portrait (that being between the waist line, and the neck)... If you look thru almost any good 3/4 portrait in any magazine, book etc this is the angle most of them are taken at. I also think the height goes well with the slight attitude type of expression I called for.

So we can agree to disagree with everything except the dark bra, I agree she probabl should have brought a light one with that.

Thanks for the comments on the lighting; it was quite a challenge
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-18-2007, 10:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I have to agree with some of the things Bobby_G said. In particular, I don't care for the pose. There are other small detail problems. For example the necklace is not properly positioned which may be a result of the pose and as well the pose causes a wrinkle under the right breast in the tee shirt. There also seems to be color inconsistencies in the the hand coming from behind and the hand and part of the arm on the right which are both much blacker than the face and upper arm. In fact the right hand is almost black along the edge. I suspect this may a lighting issue. Another small detail is the hair which is not as well combed and as a result does not harmonize with the otherwise neat attire. Lastly, about the nostril issue, I really think this one would work better if the chin was tilted down slightly to make the nostrils less prominent (I think that may be what Bobby was thinking).
On the matter of the black bra, you can sometimes deal with this issue by having a layer of white tissue placed inside the tee shirt over the bra area. The only problem in this case, is if you didn't have the black bra it would make her chest area almost flat because of the way its lit. So the black bra actually gives form and shape to the bust line in this case.

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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel) 


Cheers,
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-18-2007, 10:38 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith View Post
I have to agree with some of the things Bobby_G said. In particular, I don't care for the pose.
Well I personally love it, and have seen it before, so I guess that's an opinion issue.

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Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith View Post
There are other small detail problems. For example the necklace is not properly positioned which may be a result of the pose and as well
Actually in just about any pose, a necklace, earrings etc will of course move. You're right we didn't address it in this case, to do it right would have been to do what many do with jewelry, and that's to tape it in place. On the other hand, that often looks contrived when you have a situation where jewelry would obviously naturally be out of place, yet it isn't. But true, most pro photographs will have the necklace "proper" and we didn't take the time to tape it; I agree with that minor hit.

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Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith View Post
the pose causes a wrinkle under the right breast in the tee shirt.
I don't see anything wrong with that at all.. again there are wrinkles galore in tons of magazine shots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith View Post
There also seems to be color inconsistencies in the the hand coming from behind and the hand and part of the arm on the right which are both much blacker than the face and upper arm.
I noticed that too; I'm not sure if she was actually that way naturally, or what... who knows. I have seen people of coruse with different shades of pigment. I do wonder how it could have been a lighting issue though when her pants where well exposed and normal. Not sure about that one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith View Post
On the matter of the black bra, you can sometimes deal with this issue by having a layer of white tissue placed inside the tee shirt over the bra area.
That's a good tip, I'll have to remember that...
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-18-2007, 11:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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One other observation and/or question. Why is their a white halo like area all around the head area and also part of the rest of the body. It almost looks like you did something in photoshop. I didn't notice it until I looked at the photo on my calibrated monitor.
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-19-2007, 08:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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TJ...your post says that you are seeking "polite CC&C"...yet it appears you are really seeking valuation of what you think is a great photo. As subjective as photography is, sometimes there are elements in a photo that as much as we the photographers say "..I don't care, I like it" the issues still remain...

RFS pointed out the obvious wrinkles in the shirt...your reply is that you see wrinkles galore in tons of magazines. So instead of watching for wrinkles and try to eliminate them, you are ok with just leaving them cuz you see them in mags all the time??? If you are shooting for an agency wouldn't you rather portray work that is as close to error free as you can get rather than defending the photo with...I see it in other mags all the time??...

I mentioned the " up the nose" look...and true its really not an up the nose shot, but the nostrils are very prominent in the image...this is something we all have to be careful of cuz lets face it...nostrils are like elbows, knees and feet...they ain't pretty to look at.

Also in a pose like this, it will make the thinnest of models look wide...I don't think this pose is an image killer, I simply think a slight angle of the hips would add some of the "S" curves that I am sure she has...once again a suggestion only

I admire your passion for this image and your defense of it, but if this is truly one for an agency, there are many issues that need to be considered before submission. I would also clean the sensor...there is considerable dust in this image also...
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-19-2007, 09:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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This Forum never ceases to amaze me.....chuckle **
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-19-2007, 09:16 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G View Post
TJ...your post says that you are seeking "polite CC&C"...yet it appears you are really seeking valuation of what you think is a great photo. As subjective as photography is, sometimes there are elements in a photo that as much as we the photographers say "..I don't care, I like it" the issues still remain...
Boby, I in fact did agree with some things you said,a s well as others; but if soemone disagrees with some elements of a critique, especially those which are subjective (some things aren't, some are), there is nothing wrong with that, I'm not "defending" anything, I'm discussing the image here, no worries. Don't misread that. So far this discussion is quite polite, and this is what I ask for out of CC&C, but I don't expect for the discussion to be completely one-sided and not be able to address anything that's said about the image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G View Post
If you are shooting for an agency wouldn't you rather portray work that is as close to error free as you can get rather than defending the photo with...I see it in other mags all the time??...
But my point is, they aren't "errors" If the colors were off, a joint was cropped at the elbow etc, thsoe are errors. Having a wrinkle in a shirt that's very natural isn't an error at all. I think we need to be careful when critiquing an image not to make assertions about what is factual vs what is an opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G View Post
I mentioned the " up the nose" look...and true its really not an up the nose shot, but the nostrils are very prominent in the image...this is something we all have to be careful of cuz lets face it...nostrils are like elbows, knees and feet...they ain't pretty to look at.
I agree, and don't think it's close to an up-the-nose shot at all. It's a 3/4 shot and the camera height is apporpriate for that length.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_G View Post
Also in a pose like this, it will make the thinnest of models look wide...I don't think this pose is an image killer, I simply think a slight angle of the hips would add some of the "S" curves that I am sure she has...once again a suggestion only
The hips are angles, andalso the fact that the girl "can" put her hand behind her back like that immediately shows how thing she is. Just because someone is square to the camera doesn't mean the pose is "wrong" that's just a guideline that is very valid for 90% of the people out there. THis girl was pretty thin so this pose works. That's one reason models can "get away with" more poses than most people and why there is a demand for models to be thin; more poses "work" than with regular people. I think too many peopole on internet forums see a square pose and don't realize that so they call it "wrong."

Quote:
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I admire your passion for this image and your defense of it, but if this is truly one for an agency, there are many issues that need to be considered before submission.
I agreed with some things you said, but don't agree with most of it. I also appreciate the advice from R Frederick esp on the concealing the darkenss of undergarments that was a good tip.

Sorry but you and I just disagree on most of your points.

And yes I know about the sensor dust; the problem is it'll be hard to do without my camera for a week I'm considering getting another spare 20d or updrading to a 5d, haven't decided yet.

I also looked at this on my calibrated monitor this morning and realized the white balance was off This was the first time I didn't adjust to a grey card after the shoot because I tried "automatic white balance" and it didn't come out that great. I think I'll stick to using a grey card...

Thanks again for the comments
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Re: "Bebe" (Rachel)
Old 03-19-2007, 02:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ok don't hate me for posting a guy lol, but this is the second shot I've come up with so far from Saturday's shoot:

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