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TFP ? - The photographers know damn well that the models are gonna use them for work.
Old 12-23-2006, 11:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
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From a magazines myspace blog... This guy is too stupid to run a real publication


Ladies PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE get permission from the photographer to use your pics if they are copy righted. We will no longer be using pics if you can't proove they're yours.
Don't get me wrong. I don't really blame the models for this. But I don't understand. The photographers know damn well that the models are gonna use them for work. They ain't taken them home to put in the family album for grandma and grandpa to view. But yet they get all upset when yall do use them for work. DUDE WHAT THE F@&K???
Out of the over 2000 model submissions I've gotten, I've had 2 photoghraphers come at me months after the fact, saying that the pics I used was theirs. Even one that i gave credit in the interview. I may start sending relieses for the models to sign to proove the pics are theirs.Cause if we're promoting you to tons of readers for free. The last thing we need is squabling with a photographer.
AGAIN: PLEASE PLEASE, PLEASE, MAKE SURE YOU OWN YOUR PHOTOS THAT YOU SUBMIT.
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Re: TFP ? - The photographers know damn well that the models are gonna use them for w
Old 12-23-2006, 08:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Spill Cheek amy one??
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Re: TFP ? - The photographers know damn well that the models are gonna use them for w
Old 12-23-2006, 08:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I din't quite follow what your said. When models submitted images to you and then you had problems with photographers whose images were used by you, but for what purpose? When we shoot on TFP basis we generally give models permission to use their images for self promotions. So were you promoting models or your own line of business? Some site operators that host models' portfolios are getting away with it because in a way models get more exposure even though the sites' operators are also benefitting from it. Had a model write me once that her image taken by me was made into a poster and I should be proud, but what it turn out to be the guy who made the poster was advertising his business. You should have seen me go through the roof.

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Couple of comments...
Old 12-23-2006, 08:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
I may start sending relieses for the models to sign to proove the pics are theirs...

AGAIN: PLEASE PLEASE, PLEASE, MAKE SURE YOU OWN YOUR PHOTOS THAT YOU SUBMIT.
Okay, now assume that I am talking to the dude that wrote the blog... a huge leap of faith I know. Or as they say in the movie biz... suspend disbelief.

I am sure the models will sign your "relieses." Whether it will "proove" anything, I'll leave up to the lawyers. I don't think it will get you off the hook though... the copyright belongs to the maker, not the model unless otherwise arranged.

I suspect the photographers who are complaining are just looking for some easy money rather than trying to protect their "artistic integrity" but I don't know your publication or the photographers...

Part of the TFP/TFCD deal should be a clear statement (preferably in writing with each party getting a signed copy) on who can do what with the resulting images. It would save a lot of these types of confrontations.
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Re: TFP ? - The photographers know damn well that the models are gonna use them for w
Old 12-23-2006, 08:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If a model shoots TFP, then it is generally understood that she gets a release to use the photos for promoting her modeling. That means she could submit them to any website she wishes. She made need a written release from the photographer but that should normally be something that the photographer will grant upon request. That being said, anything can be written into the original release so ultimately whatever the release says will govern. This means a model shooting TFP should always read the release and make sure it has a clause in it that spells out her usage of the photos.

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Re: TFP ? - The photographers know damn well that the models are gonna use them for w
Old 12-24-2006, 04:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Fredrick_Smith View Post
If a model shoots TFP, then it is generally understood that she gets a release to use the photos for promoting her modeling. That means she could submit them to any website she wishes.
Dude, WTF are you talking about? Most TFP shoots are done for promotional purposes only (and one of the many reasons why I hate TFP - at least as it's become on the net). Are you telling me that if you shoot a model, TFP, and she submits those pics to a commercial site which profits from them, that's ok with you?
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Re: TFP ? - My Take
Old 12-24-2006, 03:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Usual arrangement is that the model gets to use shots for her own promotion, on her own website, and so forth. Never seen an arrangement where the model gets to license them out as content...

I would NEVER -- barring a lucky access to a true celebrity -- do a TFP/TFCD, without having a full release allowing any use of the photos by myself.

The bottom line of all this TF whatever stuff, is that the arrangements are flexible, a bargaining situation, and the final deal depends on the relative stature and skill of the two parties. If a total beginner model came to me and wanted a full license, as well as permission for her own self-promotion, I'd tell her to put on boots and take a hike. Same response if she wanted to limit my use.

I was at a seminar by Ken Marcus, of fine art and Playboy fame. He mentioned that for a certain photo essay (shot under tough conditions in Yosemite) the models worked for photos, not cash. A previously obnoxious woman in the audience interrupted and asked "Why on earth would a womyn (sic) model just for pictures from you?" Marcus, a gentleman, sighed, paused a moment, then gently said, "I like to think that after all these years of study, work, and publication, my photos might have some small value for the model." I recall that the audience snickered and tittered, and the questioner was too filled with herself to even understand why.
 
 
Re: TFP ? - The photographers know damn well that the models are gonna use them for w
Old 12-24-2006, 06:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Sheesh ,

Perhaps I'll end my quest for a model and stay with Mother Nature. She's one lady that won't "stiff" or sue you some time down the road.

Does a model release have to be written by an attorney or does one that can be found on the web suffice?

Happy Holidays,
JW
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Last edited by cifcap; 12-24-2006 at 06:31 PM.. Reason: Mispelled word
 
Re: TFP ? - The photographers know damn well that the models are gonna use them for w
Old 12-25-2006, 09:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cifcap View Post
Sheesh ,

Does a model release have to be written by an attorney or does one that can be found on the web suffice?

Happy Holidays,
JW

I use a form from the "Business and Legal Forms for Photographers" this book includes alot of different forms and also included a CD with the same forms in "word" format. Just my $0.02

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Re: TFP ? - My Take
Old 12-27-2006, 09:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glamourpics View Post
I was at a seminar by Ken Marcus, of fine art and Playboy fame.
Ken Marcus is the man.

And hard to beat.
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