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What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 08:17 AM   #1 (permalink)
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So , I e-mail a model on another site to do a shoot. I tell her what I'm planning and where we could go. She's all over it. Great idea and is going to scout some other areas. She then disappears. I finally get hold of her again last night. No, she's no longer interested. I check her portfolio. Sure enough there are the same type of shots I suggested we shoot together.

Now, I am by no stretch of the imagination an experienced photographer. I shoot stills as a hobby. I try to pick up experience and learn something new every day. It's been a while since I've had what I feel was a good shoot with a model. So I decide to contact a professional glamour/nude photographer near me. He advertises that he offers private instruction. I tell him I am interested in coming in and learning some lighting techniques. Have a positive experience shooting with a model. But not with his professional gear but with my meager equipment. I want to learn to shoot with what I have not what I don't have. I still haven't heard back. It's been a week.

I just don't get it.
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 08:27 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I am teaching a lighting workshop that you might be interested in. Look in the workshop forum for 18th Century B&B Shoot.
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 08:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I think we all learn (or will learn) not to discuss in detail any concepts/ideas we have with a model. Unless of course we know and trust her. I learned it quite a while ago, and I'm guessing you've now learned that to.
:-)

I also offer one-on-one training and I'm also an instructor/mentor with JT Smith's supershoots. supershoots.com
So, depending on if you prefer a workshop enviroment or one-on-one I can help. Although the gentlemen that posted before me is closer to you so less travel distance involved.

Good luck,
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 03:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_Michaels View Post
I want to learn to shoot with what I have not what I don't have. I still haven't heard back. It's been a week.
Because your email got shifted into a junk mail folder.....
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 07:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_Michaels View Post
I tell him I am interested in coming in and learning some lighting techniques. Have a positive experience shooting with a model. But not with his professional gear but with my meager equipment. I want to learn to shoot with what I have not what I don't have. I still haven't heard back. It's been a week.

I just don't get it.
actually you do get it. it's the other photographer that doesn't. what good does it do you to take instruction using some high-end lighting and grip gear only to go back home and try to figure out how you can get the same results with whatever gear you have... gear you've already labeled "meager." and, i'm assuming, without imminent intentions of seriously upgrading your equipment.

maybe i should get into this instructional thing? maybe i'll call it "guerilla glamour" and show people how to shoot with less and still get results. heck, it ain't much different than "guerilla filmmaking" and i've done plenty of that.
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 09:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyd View Post
actually you do get it. it's the other photographer that doesn't. what good does it do you to take instruction using some high-end lighting and grip gear only to go back home and try to figure out how you can get the same results with whatever gear you have... gear you've already labeled "meager." and, i'm assuming, without imminent intentions of seriously upgrading your equipment.

maybe i should get into this instructional thing? maybe i'll call it "guerilla glamour" and show people how to shoot with less and still get results. heck, it ain't much different than "guerilla filmmaking" and i've done plenty of that.
Actually Jimmy, as the other photographer in question, I do get it. Most of my private sessions are based around explaining the functions of their equipment, and working out how to achieve the best results using what they have.

Sean's email got shifted into my junk mail folder...

Glenn
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 10:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grsphoto View Post
Actually Jimmy, as the other photographer in question, I do get it. Most of my private sessions are based around explaining the functions of their equipment, and working out how to achieve the best results using what they have.

Sean's email got shifted into my junk mail folder...

Glenn
first, i had no idea who the "other" photographer was when i wrote what i wrote. i was commenting on what the original poster said, taking it at face value, and simply offering my take on it. i still stand-by what i said about working with people at their level and with their level of equipment. i'm sure there are instructors who do exactly that. (no, i didn't think i was inventing a new way to teach this thing we do.) if that's how you approach your workshops, i think that's great and the right way to do it! i also think there's room to show people who are learning what can be done with gear they might not have. OTOH, i'm sure there are some instructors who do the opposite and have students working exclusively, while learning, with gear they'll not work with outside the learning environment. none of what i said was meant as personal. since i dint know who the guy was talking about and, frankly, didn't care to seek that info out, i hope you didnt' take it that way .
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 10:44 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyd View Post
maybe i should get into this instructional thing? maybe i'll call it "guerilla glamour" and show people how to shoot with less and still get results. heck, it ain't much different than "guerilla filmmaking" and i've done plenty of that.
Let me know when the classes start and I'll brave the commute to the valley. I'm pretty sure you could fill a few classrooms with folks in the socal area. Most of the supershoot type things seem to be back east or hit/miss on visits to socal, so maybe you should do a few sessions to feel the market out.

I've looked into a couple of the local managed shoots and found many of them are not what I would take as really education oriented. Seems to be a bit of the GWC syndroome in So Cal. I'm looking for an event where both my wife and I can learn to shoot better, so the local GWC event won't work.
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-21-2006, 11:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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since i dint know who the guy was talking about and, frankly, didn't care to seek that info out, i hope you didnt' take it that way .
I did not take it any way.. I just wanted to clarify what was going on. I have been in communication with Sean. He hasn't been haveing a good week, photographically.

I have put a lot of thought into my workshops, and try and make them so that the information is useable by all skill and equipment levels.

Some of the shoots and workshops use my speedotron equipment ( because it is almost indestructable) others we use the participants equipment.

I don't have sponsors so I don't have the need to talk up or down a brand.

If you decide to do workshops and take them on the road, I have a location in Toronto were you will be welcome.

Glenn
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Re: What is it with people in this industry---Rant---
Old 11-22-2006, 03:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Jimmy,

Happy Thanksgiviging! First, not all instructors are alike. I know Glenn is a great instructor, with a great location and obviously you two have a great dialogue going on, so that's all I'll put in for now. I missed Canada this year but hope to make it back in 2007.

On another note, other parts of your posts are interesting. Again, not all instructors are alike. I've heard/seen some that make it a "gang bang" shoot, nothing more, strictly pass the remote and never teach anything but unprofessionalism. Even had one instructor who took all my photo tips onlline, copied them after removing my credit-line and the URL, then passed them out as his. There are other instructors that charge way more than their credentials would even allow in the non-Internet world, then there are those don't even pay their models and sometimes MUA's.

Yes, some are even sponsored, some are not. Sponsorships bring benefits for those looking to purchase at discounted prices or product incentives for attending. While I'm very sponsored, I only use what I believe in, and I will demonstrate such use. I had one attendee, a pro, who attended only for the sponsors promotion at the time, they saved money.

Part of workshops is providing a conducive environment for folks to work in, to produce images while learning and practicing. Many attend because they don't own anything but a camera, and they need the experience using equipment, some to make informed purchasing decisions. Most attend to learn, though there is always a few that attend cause it's the only place they can shoot sexy gals in sexy clothes or lack of.

While I do provide "one on one" training that is based on a particular persons needs and equipment, my group workshops would not function if we had to set up each attendees lights each time, no workshop could function like that when you have more than 10 people at a gathering. Experiencing the use of pro equipment can show someone why pro equipment costs more in addition to providing you what you really need, especially lighting.

Often, like most recently in Dallas, I purposely do "one-light" set-ups even though I have enough lights to do multiple light set-ups. I prefer this method to emphasize how easy it is to light with one light while showing where the dificulties lay too. In fact I show up with an Olympus E-500 (8MP, $700) camera and my Leica (10MP, $9K) to show that even cameras with two price extremes of each other can produce similar results--lighting is key.

Your statement is like telling someone they should not shoot with workshop or agency models, instead workshops should have family and friends from the street as models. In an analogy of your statement, it's like saying you don't have high-end talent at home as a model, so why photograph higher-end, experienced talent? I think that's wrong--you have to show people where they can go with their work given better conditions--give them a goal and the will. Something to work towards.

Too many people spend thousands on camera bodies because of the megapixel hype/war, when instead they should purchase a "prosumer" camera and invest in lighting. I don't mean they should spend thousands, they should instead buy one piece at a time with the goal to have a full set of lights down the road. The purpose is dual in that it will hopefully teach them to learn what one light can do for you first--the key is to master one light not try and throw up three or four lights with no clue.

In a nutshell, yes, learn your equipment, but also learn fundamentals too. Set goals for your equipment and work towards that, even one higher-priced piece at a time is better than three pieces of crappy, cheap equipment. Make informed decisions, including when it comes to workshops. Remember, light is to an image what blood is to the human body. Would you ask for "grade c" blood during a transfusion? Evaluate the instructor, ask questions, then determine if the value is a good value or not. Just my two centavos worth.

Wishing you a great Thanksgiving and Glenn a great week since I don't think Canadians celebrate Thanksgiving...wishing you all the best, rg sends!

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