Lens Diaries Go Now
Glamour, Beauty, Nude, Models, Photographers

*    |  Register  


 
Go Back   Garage Glamour™ > Garage Glamour™ Main Forums > Main Community Forum
 

Main Community Forum General Modeling & Photography Forum
Adult posts prohibited!>>Please Read Our GUIDELINES before posting!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Situation question...how would you handle it?
Old 04-21-2006, 09:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Member GG#: 46572
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 90
Comments: 0
My Mood:

kjtw is offline IP: 65.116.105.130
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I did a shoot with a model about a month ago (maybe not quite a month, but it is getting close). There were a lot of problems during the shoot. The MUA showed up 90 minutes late and the model ended up having to leave on short notice because of some personal problems that came up. By the time the MUA showed up, got hair and makeup done, it was 8:15 and the model said she needed to leave at 8:30. So, we shot some and she got changed and left.

Normally, before I ever start shooting, I require that the model that I am working with (in TFP/TFCD cases) sign a release and a TFP agreement. On this particular occasion, for one reason or another, it didn't get signed right away. With the rush to get done and out the door, the paperwork never got completed. In talking to her a few days later, I told her this and, being that she wanted to come and shoot again soon, I told her we would just take care of everything then because she lives some distance from my studio (about 2 hours away).

Well, time has passed and now she is bugging me for the photos. I want to tell her that I am not going to release the photos until I get a signed release and TFP agreement, but I know that she isn't going to like that. I really don't want to give her anything until that is done because I loose my chances of getting them signed (at least that is the way I am looking at it) and I technically can't use the photos until the release, at a minimum, is signed.

What would you do in this situation? How would you handle it. I know that the best thing would have been to get the stuff signed before the shoot began, but in this case, that did not happen.

Thanks in advance to everyone taking the time on this one!
__________________
Jeremy R. Wirtz
JRW Photography Group
http://www.jrwphotogroup.com
  View Public Profile Send a private message to kjtw Visit kjtw's homepage! Find More Posts by kjtw
 
Re: Situation question...how would you handle it?
Old 04-21-2006, 10:12 AM   #2 (permalink)
Free Member

 
eselby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35236
Location: Ball Ground
Posts: 360
Comments: 0
Send a message via AIM to eselby Send a message via Yahoo to eselby

eselby is offline IP: 69.15.101.106
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjtw
I technically can't use the photos until the release, at a minimum, is signed.
That depends. What do you want to use the photos for? Do you want to sell them as stock? That's commerical use. Yeah, you'll need a release. Do you want to include the photos in an article you are writing for a magazine? You probably do not need a release (editorial use). Do you want to use the photos in an advertisment for a product or service? Yeah, you need a release. Do you want to use the photos in your portfolio (even on-line)? No, you don't need a release.

How would I handle your situation? If you really truly need a release, pay her for it. She's more likely to respond to a monetary positive than a "you won't get the pix until I get a sig" negative.
__________________
Ed Selby
www.eselby.com
678-860-1546
  View Public Profile Send a private message to eselby Visit eselby's homepage! Find More Posts by eselby
 
Re: Situation question...how would you handle it?
Old 04-21-2006, 10:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
RSStory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member GG#: 38048
Location: Grand Rapids
Posts: 916
Comments: 0
Send a message via AIM to RSStory Send a message via MSN to RSStory Send a message via Yahoo to RSStory

RSStory is offline IP: 70.230.234.64
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjtw
I did a shoot with a model about a month ago (maybe not quite a month, but it is getting close). There were a lot of problems during the shoot. The MUA showed up 90 minutes late and the model ended up having to leave on short notice because of some personal problems that came up. By the time the MUA showed up, got hair and makeup done, it was 8:15 and the model said she needed to leave at 8:30. So, we shot some and she got changed and left.

Normally, before I ever start shooting, I require that the model that I am working with (in TFP/TFCD cases) sign a release and a TFP agreement. On this particular occasion, for one reason or another, it didn't get signed right away. With the rush to get done and out the door, the paperwork never got completed. In talking to her a few days later, I told her this and, being that she wanted to come and shoot again soon, I told her we would just take care of everything then because she lives some distance from my studio (about 2 hours away).

Well, time has passed and now she is bugging me for the photos. I want to tell her that I am not going to release the photos until I get a signed release and TFP agreement, but I know that she isn't going to like that. I really don't want to give her anything until that is done because I loose my chances of getting them signed (at least that is the way I am looking at it) and I technically can't use the photos until the release, at a minimum, is signed.

What would you do in this situation? How would you handle it. I know that the best thing would have been to get the stuff signed before the shoot began, but in this case, that did not happen.

Thanks in advance to everyone taking the time on this one!
This one is easy... No release = no images... That is just the way it is.

Good luck with however you decide to handle it.
__________________
Trying to tame a red head is like trying to herd cats!
  View Public Profile Send a private message to RSStory Visit RSStory's homepage! Find More Posts by RSStory
 
Re: Situation question...how would you handle it?
Old 04-21-2006, 10:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
Olli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Member GG#: 39548
Location: Charleston
Posts: 189
Comments: 15

Olli is offline IP: 198.253.20.78
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Get the release signed first. You can mail it and have her send it back signed and notorized, with a copy of her drivers licence. Chances are, especially with the distances involved, once you send the images you will never get the release signed.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Olli Visit Olli's homepage! Find More Posts by Olli
 
Re: Situation question...how would you handle it?
Old 04-21-2006, 03:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
glamourpics
Guest
 
Member GG#:
Posts: n/a
Comments:

IP: 68.233.225.43
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I use a checklist and don't 'forget' things. Especially THE most important things. Without a release, the shots are worth nothing more than a few electrons on a card.

Suppose I flew an airplane, didn't use a checklist, and then, two miles in the air was saying, "Gosh, I forgot to check the oil," or "Gee, I wish I'd noticed that the radio isn't working right."

AS to the present situation, if you give the photos first, you'll never see a signed release. Accept that fact, and then make your decision accordingly.
 
 
You're on the verge....
Old 04-21-2006, 04:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
postcardsfromthewasteland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35309
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 226
Comments: 0

postcardsfromthewasteland is offline IP: 68.211.191.182
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

...of getting hosed by this model. Get a release, or don't hand over your pics. Esp if you both agreed to the release condition beforehand.
Jim
  View Public Profile Send a private message to postcardsfromthewasteland Visit postcardsfromthewasteland's homepage! Find More Posts by postcardsfromthewasteland
 
Re: Situation question...how would you handle it?
Old 04-21-2006, 07:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
FrankParis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Member GG#: 36573
Location: Goose Creek
Posts: 1,157
Comments: 1

FrankParis is offline IP: 68.58.187.40
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjtw
I did a shoot with a model about a month ago (maybe not quite a month, but it is getting close). There were a lot of problems during the shoot. The MUA showed up 90 minutes late and the model ended up having to leave on short notice because of some personal problems that came up. By the time the MUA showed up, got hair and makeup done, it was 8:15 and the model said she needed to leave at 8:30. So, we shot some and she got changed and left.

Normally, before I ever start shooting, I require that the model that I am working with (in TFP/TFCD cases) sign a release and a TFP agreement. On this particular occasion, for one reason or another, it didn't get signed right away. With the rush to get done and out the door, the paperwork never got completed. In talking to her a few days later, I told her this and, being that she wanted to come and shoot again soon, I told her we would just take care of everything then because she lives some distance from my studio (about 2 hours away).

Well, time has passed and now she is bugging me for the photos. I want to tell her that I am not going to release the photos until I get a signed release and TFP agreement, but I know that she isn't going to like that. I really don't want to give her anything until that is done because I loose my chances of getting them signed (at least that is the way I am looking at it) and I technically can't use the photos until the release, at a minimum, is signed.

What would you do in this situation? How would you handle it. I know that the best thing would have been to get the stuff signed before the shoot began, but in this case, that did not happen.

Thanks in advance to everyone taking the time on this one!

My heart bleeds for you. I just went through almost the same thing ecept I shot the lady inquestion for 3 hours. Put another 15 to 20 hours in preping her cd. I gave her about 30 prints, mostly bad ones so we could discuss her shortcommings as a model. Her claim to fame was that she didn't get a release to sign... well maybe but when I gave her one she went postal on me. I had a pict up on gg she promptly told me I didn't have her permission to use it. So I took it down. This just got real ugly. I sent the cd off to get copyrighted. We parted ways. I heard she got fired from the restaurant for pulling the same kind of tricks. (not that kind)
I just pmed another photographer last night about it, he said just trash them so to the bit bucket it went...all 1.5 gb of the photo's. So now the only copies i know of in existance is the copyright cd.
I learned. I learned, boy did I learn.

fdp
__________________
**The Whole World is Watching**
  View Public Profile Send a private message to FrankParis Find More Posts by FrankParis
 
Re: Situation question...how would you handle it?
Old 04-21-2006, 10:52 PM   #8 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
stevenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Member GG#: 35783
Location: Garden Grove
Posts: 1,381
Comments: 7
My Mood:

stevenD is offline IP: 71.105.245.145
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I don't see what the big problem is, just tell her it is your policy NOT to release the CD to a Model until you have a singed Model release.

it's not like you're asking for her first born, my gosh..

Nor should you spring anything on a Model, I aways tell them up front if I want them to sign a release...
__________________
If God hadn't meant for them to be sheared,
he wouldn't have made them Sheep...
  View Public Profile Send a private message to stevenD Visit stevenD's homepage! Find More Posts by stevenD
 
Similar Situation
Old 04-22-2006, 08:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
Information Sponge

 
Carpe Imago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Member GG#: 49267
Location: Milwaukee/Lake Geneva
Posts: 329
Comments: 0

Carpe Imago is offline IP: 207.118.152.123
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Similar situation...

I shot with a new model yesterday. New to me, and she's just returning to the business after a few years off (she's 22). At the end of the shoot I gave her the TFP release and basically told her that I wanted her to take it home, read it, and have her fiancee' read it (already met him too, nice guy). Then, once she had a chance to read it and sign it she could either mail it to me or we could connect someplace and exchange the CD for the release. I will also provide her with 3-5 images (8 x 10") once she has had a chance to pick the images she likes from the disk.

I run the risk of never getting the release and having 3 hours of time gone forever. If she doesn't sign it, I won't use the images anywhere...period...just my policy. However, I did find a great new sight to shoot, have a couple of ideas that I can use with other models, and even learned one new technique on my camera that I hadn't used before. Was the time wasted, not at all. More importantly, I hope that this model who I very much want to shoot again will walk away from this experience with the understanding that our business interests are closely aligned. When I treat her with professionalism and respect she will begin trust me more, and when that happens she will get increasingly confident and it will come through on the images. And oh yeah, beautiful women tend to have beautiful friends. The next great prospect from a shoot might just come from this young lady if I treat her well.

If she doesn't sign the release, I will just burn the images to disk and file them with a note in my filing systen that says "no release on file". Professional photographers (even those that are professional in mindset only) must emply professional business practices. If not, they either get in trouble or go out of business. It's that simple.

If you can do so honestly kjtw, I would tell her how sorry you were that you didn't have enough time to shoot the way that you wanted to and that you really want her to come back and shoot again. Explain that the release is to protect both of your interests and that your business practices, based upon the advice of your attorney, doesn't allow the release of any sort of images until a written release is signed. If she is a professional she will understand that. If she wants to be a professional, this is a great "teaching opportunity". If she is entirely unprofessional then chalk it up to experience, correct your business practive to avoid this in the future, and move on to the next shoot.
__________________
My goal in life is to rid the world of ignorance...mainly my own.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Carpe Imago Find More Posts by Carpe Imago
 
Re: Situation question...how would you handle it?
Old 04-22-2006, 09:19 AM   #10 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
stevenD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Member GG#: 35783
Location: Garden Grove
Posts: 1,381
Comments: 7
My Mood:

stevenD is offline IP: 71.105.24.63
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Hey Carpe you make some great points,but why would you want to waste three hours, plus all the time, effort and studio costs?

They would be wasted if a model dosen't sign your MRF (Model Release Form).

If you are so concerned about a Model reading, understanding and (most importantly) signing the MRF, why not give it to them a head of time?

Basically, if they don't ask to see it ahead of time, I don't offer it up, and if they didn't want to sign it, yep, no CD, but that has NEVER happened to me (in nearly 100 Shoots).

Now that I am doing mostly Paid Shoots, I modified my MRF, to read something like: "I can do whatever I want with the photos, including selling them" while the Model can only use them as promotion. That way if ever shoot someone who becomes famous, I will be able to make some money off them...
__________________
If God hadn't meant for them to be sheared,
he wouldn't have made them Sheep...
  View Public Profile Send a private message to stevenD Visit stevenD's homepage! Find More Posts by stevenD
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Answer a Photo Question then leave a Photo Question? rolandogomez Main Community Forum 35 12-02-2007 07:00 PM
Answer to question on sensor size vs crop factor Brad Tech Talk Forum 17 01-02-2006 10:40 PM
Question for full time pros and thoughts for those who are not RickHughes Main Community Forum 22 10-28-2005 09:12 AM
A question on digital use due to JT's question jford Tech Talk Forum 11 12-03-2002 06:58 PM
Question on Digital Earl53 Tech Talk Forum 4 11-20-2002 12:06 AM

Sponsors


New To Site? Need Help? Photographer & Model Links
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:47 PM.

© 1999-2017 Garage Glamour™




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93