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Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 01:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The Ancient Greeks had a division of the arts.
As photographers, and from a photographers view, does this still exist in our endeavors, or do we as a whole just shoot the photo without any thought or insight?
I realize we have "Photographic Artist" here, but I'm curious as to the thought process that goes into producing our art.

Three divisions of Art as seen in Plato and Socrates era:

1. Servile Art- this would include the stone masons, wheel makers, those who made useful pottery and such.
As photographers this would be those who do the weddings, the sports venues, the graduations and so on.

2. Fine Art- this would include much of what the Servile Art was, but to a higher degree, the gold inlay of a harness or trapping, the ornate tileing of a wall, vases which where more for decoration, the wonderful statues of the era and so forth.
Today, possibly the glamour shots, fine art nudes, the fine tuning we do in PS to make the the color really pop out and so forth.

3. Liberal Art- at it's root core, the exchanging of philosophies, viewpoints, and ideas.
They to, for their time were thinking outside the box. Are we no different, aren't we artists in our own way or style. I don't think Plato would agree with everything Socrates would say or vice a versa, but in the end, messages would be sent and life would go on, each having to think about what was said or wasn't said. Democracy came from thinking outside the box.





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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 01:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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[ QUOTE ]
I realize we have "Photographic Artist" here, but I'm curious as to the thought process that goes into producing our art.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno.....I see beauty and try and shoot it that way. If it ends up being servile, fine or liberal, so be it.



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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 01:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Ok JT, now that is definitely Fine Art. I don't care what the Greeks say. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I was just curious as to if there was a mind set or maybe a list of things or thoughts going into a shoot one trys to acomplish or capture.
uumm, did that make sense [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 02:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I think it's the missing element to many photographers. They get so wrapped up into the excitement of shooting that all they end up with is a bunch of pictures of a pretty model that they ended up hacking up. All that does is disappoint.

Instead, one should THINK about the ultimate end, and that is producing fine imagery no matter if art was the direction or not.

J T
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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 05:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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When Jodi and I shot this image, this is what we had planned for, talked about, conceptualized, visualized; this image is very much on purpose.

What we both got out of it, however, was far beyond anything that either of us had expected.

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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 08:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It looks like a combination of things going there. Is that a red gel being used?
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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 09:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I think I agree with JT, I have difficulty even defining art and really chafe when I hear people talking about 'fine art' as if other art is somehow coarse or less in some way. A lot of what I shoot isn't art at all but I put the same, maybe even more care into shooting it. When I want to put a feeling or expression in an image, that's when I think of it as art.

On the other hand, I think the concept of servile art could well describe how I live. I put feeling into everything I do, I'm unable to do a job 'just good enough to get by'. I have to put my mark on what I do as if to say, this who I am, this is what I care about.

When I'm shooting, or doing anything else for that matter, I'm never thinking about making art... I'm just doing what the spirit moves me to do. Bottom line is, I do everything for the fun of it, even if it isn't fun, I still approach it that way and give the same effort I would if I enjoyed it.



I gotta shoot some more pretty girl shots... need some new stuff to post.

Chip
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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 09:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks JT,
I think maybe you understood what I'm trying to figure out here.
(The element of thinking before hand what we are about to shoot, possibly planning the end, and seeing it before the shutter is tripped.)
Whether considered art or not, would this be the thing that most of us should be striving for, or consider when doing most Glamour/Fashion type shooting.

When I paint, I have an outcome in mind, a vision of sorts. I also might make a list of feelings or emotions which I want to evoke into the painting.
Would this thought process also be good towards producing a photograph?
I wonder if this could be carried into other venues of photography as well?

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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 09:14 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks Chip,
I think you also get what I'm trying to find out here.
Maybe it's just a way of how one looks at things. Such as, when I worked at a golf course. I didn't much enjoy mowing greens, but when I did, I made it a point to keep the mowing path straight and even so when you looked at it you had this straight line effect that was pleasing to the eye.
I don't really enjoy weddings, but when I shoot one I try to produce something that would be considered artful and memorable. Sometimes I think I fail in this because of the situation more than anything else [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
But it does pay the bills. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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Re: Your thoughts on an old idea.
Old 01-19-2006, 11:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I think one of our problems is that we tend to over intellectualize and define what is a non intellectual creative process. More important is the question of purpose. When we shoot an image, why are we making it, what purpose do we intend it to serve. Is the intent to have the image published in a magazine, placed in a wedding album or hung on the wall of an art gallery. Assuming we apply our skill and creativity, then the anticipated purpose is all else that matters.

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