I am confused

[gregkdavis]

Without the visual ques to go with the words,,, we are subject to our filter
of the day... Because of the distance and the rare chance that we do actually
have to meet and deal with each other in person, people tend to be a bit more
daring in their behaviours and remarks.

I really don't attend many events so I wouldn't know. But civility should be
the standard and the norm, not the exception.

[ QUOTE ]


I don't think I have seen anyone really receive mentoring or training or get questions answered over arguments between folks. I have seen many folks leave for those reasons.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm doing my part right here on this thread....
Time to Get Off my A$$, Marketing!!!!
Will people read it? I don't know. By the PM's and calls I get people are interested- but are they willing to follow-up? That's the big question.

Those who left, were they asking questions and not getting answers?
It appears most of the participants here do attempt to answer questions.

Unfortunately there's alot of inane stuff that goes on too.

Don't know how to eliminate that--- at least not yet.

Greg.

[stevewilliams]

You've raised an interesting subject Frank. What is art?

I actually am a mason. My preferred work is pavers - driveways, walkways, patios, etc. It involves design, craftmanship, communication skills, hard physical labor. I get a great deal of satisfaction from it because the end result is beautiful, but also useful. People walk on it, drive on it, admire it every day.

I have struggled in the past to find that same satisfaction in photography. For me, I need to achieve something different with photography that is not utilitarian, but philosophical. It has to do with the universal, something to hang on a wall, where it will continue to jog my thinking, and won't grow old. I find this extremely difficult with this genre of photography, because sex can be such a mundane thing.

To give an example. I saw a shot in someone's portfolio the other day that was technically flawed, but yet had an element to it that caught my attention. It was the way the model's breasts were resting on the side of a pool, soft, resting on the hard surface. It conjured in my mind the feel of a woman's breasts resting on me, the joy and closeness a lover will bring. This is the universal, and if that seed of an idea could be adequately fulfilled in a photograph - well that would be art of the highest sort.

Steve

[mhickey]

If you had said 'Mike write on a piece of paper what specific folks will say if they reply to your post and seal it in an envelope', and then you bet me a $100 bill on each right answer, I'd be buying that new Nikkor DX lens I want. To Jimmy et al, if I really thought I could sway your opinion over to my way of thinking, then hell I should run for political office.

With that said, I was 'engaged' enough to want to make a statement and I made it. I have expectations and maybe they are unrealistic but I never as a father or as a leader saw any progress when I failed to say what I expected and what I thought was right. Doesn't mean I'm right, but it also means I don't need to just accept the fact that others don't have my expectations.

I'll go quiet again and see who gets in the next pisser. You'll hear from me when I have images to post or you are someone asking for feedback and no one seems to want to give you the time of day.

Love you all.

Mike

[stevewilliams]

Mike, and this is just a question, I am not saying you are wrong. If we were all together in person right now, would you have said what you just said in exactly the same way?

Steve

[mhickey]

You betcha. Ask Dave Hickey who I call cuz even though we haven't proven we are related. He came down from PA and stopped in to talk. As the great philosopher Popeye said, 'I yam what I yam'.
You are fairly new here, I have watched this sorta of thing go on and on. And I just expect more. I'm not stupid, I realize that it won't change but what I do know is if you say nothing, and accept what you consider to be less than people can really achieve, then you are part of helping them reach a standard below their capability.

Mike

[lobofw]

I believe you have the combination of it all.
[ QUOTE ]
I get a great deal of satisfaction from it because the end result is beautiful, but also useful. People walk on it, drive on it, admire it every day.


[/ QUOTE ]
This would be the Servile Art, the usefullness of it and the satisfaction you recieve from.

[ QUOTE ]
I need to achieve something different with photography that is not utilitarian, but philosophical. It has to do with the universal, something to hang on a wall, where it will continue to jog my thinking, and won't grow old

[/ QUOTE ]
This is what many of us are searching for or trying to learn. I think it's that next level most are trying to acheive. Which would be the Fine Art aspect.

[ QUOTE ]
It conjured in my mind the feel of a woman's breasts resting on me, the joy and closeness a lover will bring. This is the universal, and if that seed of an idea could be adequately fulfilled in a photograph - well that would be art of the highest sort.


[/ QUOTE ]
The photo that started this process could be from the Fine Art class as it took you to that Liberal Art state. It gave you food for thought and that in itself I think is liberating, because your not thinking of an object, but through different senses.

Each level of art is evolved from the lower level and becomes something more.

Just like a painter, he must start with a single brush stroke until it becomes a masterpiece. I think we're the same with photography, we keep trying new and different things untill we find that one photo that makes it all worth while.
It's a never ending learning process.

[jimmyd]

but this ain't a workshop. it's a forum. and, unlike a workshop, it doesn't convene for two or three days. it's a forum that goes on and on and on. and while this forum is topical, it doesn't always stay on topic and sometimes drifts far from it. why? because it lacks the very structure that you desire. and while structure provides a foundation, it can also inhibit creativity.

this is a gathering of artists. and yet you seem to want to create a controlled evironment that, IMO, might not be overly conducive to artistic creativity.

also, unlike a workshop, this forum doesn't have a hierarchy that is established well before the workshop convenes. there aren't any workshop leaders and instructors here. sure, there's admins and mods, but they're more like hallway monitors. whatever leaders develop in this forum do so by virtue of their skills as a photographer or model, their willingness to mentor and inspire, their abilities to communicate, and not by appointment or by virtue of their ordained status at a workshop.

[lobofw]

uumm, sorry, they took my forge away and gave me camera. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]
But I do have 1 knife left I made from a railroad spike. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

oooo, that gave me an idea,
Thanks Master Po. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[stevewilliams]

I think you misunderstood me. I am new here, but I'm not. I was on this board in 1999 and 2000, and before that I was on other boards, as early as '94 or '95. And what I am saying is that people are still learning this form of communication. It is the nature of the beast. That doesn't mean it can't or won't change. I have already seen it change, people are starting to get it, but there are still many to whom it is new.

Now, you took my post as a challenge, maybe, but maybe not as the challenge I meant. It is the nature of the beast. It is not the same as being in person. For one thing, I could not possibly had my say for this long if we were in person, it would be interactive in a different way.

Steve

[hicspix]

[ QUOTE ]
Ask Dave Hickey who I call cuz even though we haven't proven we are related. He came down from PA and stopped in to talk. As the great philosopher Popeye said, 'I yam what I yam'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, that explains that piece of spinach on your tooth I was too polite to point out during our visit! Arf-arf-arf (or is it Huck-huck-huck? He seemed to employ both versions regularly). [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

By the way, a terrific visit in which we spend -- what was it Cuz? -- about four to five hours talking nothing but photography? And even after that amount of time I was disappointed to cut the visit short to race the sunset to Corpus Christi in search of ... images!

Dave

Incidentally, the sun won so I was stuck shooting this ..