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Opinions & Answers Please..
Old 12-31-2005, 01:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
JohnPaul
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Ok...this seems to come up more than I'd like it..

I was contacted by a model who I have worked with who told me that a "magazine" contacted her regarding pictures that I took of her.

They want to sell them from their website and split the profits 70-30%...the model gets 70% and they get 30%.

My name appears boldly on the pictures in question along with this little thingy: ©

After reading the e-mails this "Founder" of the magazine sent to the model, I noticed that he makes absolutely no acknowledgment of me, the photographer, or the person who's name appears on every one of those pictures.

The model signed a release to me.

The pictures are registered by the Library of Congress.

Apparently that doesn't matter to the publisher, because he sends her a licensing agreement for 1 year to hold them harmless to use the pictures for the sale of the posters, but doesn't limit that usage to that specific purpose.. (I read the contract).. So far, she hasn't signed it..(as far as I know)..

Ok.........now I am not coming here to wine about some happening here,..... I am asking the forum, which consists of several professional photographers & models who deal in the glamour industry their opinions on my question here:

How do you feel about publishers who do this?

I have a question for the forum too:

Is it common practice to go around the photographers in order to get pictures published in their magazines?

The reason why I am asking this, is because this is exactly what happend with a certain "Mens Magazine" in the past who's owner went to jail for something or another.. I have delt with several similar situations like this in the past as well,.......Oh,....and before I forget,... The images in question are not what I'd call "titillating" by any means...and I wonder what commercial value they would even have in a "mens magazine"..in the first place..? Well,...so far I haven't heard from the publisher / founder yet,... He has my contact info....all he has to do is search my name on google.com and he'll run across me one way or another..but hasn't contacted me yet,... OR,...he could have contacted me through the model as well.. but so far, as I said,..he has made no mention of me to her..

Ok......discuss..

JP
 
 
Re: Opinions & Answers Please..
Old 12-31-2005, 02:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
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just my opinion, not that it matters... but..

If he saw your name and the © (copyright) symbol on the pictures... he must certainly know that you hold the copyright, and in my opinion.. he was trying to get the model to agree to something that you wouldnt.

Such as that 70-30 split.. which he can always say to the model.. "well we sold only XX copies so you get only xx dollars". with you he would have to pay you alot more, and therefor not make money over and above what he can con the model into thinking he sold.


But.. that is my opinion, as he went around you to the model. Of course.. maybe the model submitted the image to them.. and he made the offer thinking she had the copyright or release agreement to do so..

again.. just my opinion.. and I am on pain meds..

Andrew
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Re: Opinions & Answers Please..
Old 12-31-2005, 02:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I agree with Andrew...he probably thinks he can save money by going thru the model and not you.

Either way, the model doesn't really have the right to sign the contract because she doesn't hold the copyright. But I am sure he can claim that he didn't know that and get away wth it.
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Re: Opinions & Answers Please..
Old 12-31-2005, 02:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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[ QUOTE ]
just my opinion, not that it matters... but..

If he saw your name and the © (copyright) symbol on the pictures... he must certainly know that you hold the copyright, and in my opinion.. he was trying to get the model to agree to something that you wouldnt.

Such as that 70-30 split.. which he can always say to the model.. "well we sold only XX copies so you get only xx dollars". with you he would have to pay you alot more, and therefor not make money over and above what he can con the model into thinking he sold.


But.. that is my opinion, as he went around you to the model. Of course.. maybe the model submitted the image to them.. and he made the offer thinking she had the copyright or release agreement to do so..

again.. just my opinion.. and I am on pain meds..

Andrew

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Andrew for your opinion.. I hope you feel better there too..

Actually,...according to the e-mails forwarded to me from the model, he contacted her after seeing her in a well known swimsuit manufacturer's contest page, which features her contact info. That is a good point,...and I wish I had time to edit that part into the OP..

Thanks! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

JP
 
 
Re: Opinions & Answers Please..
Old 12-31-2005, 03:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Andrew...he probably thinks he can save money by going thru the model and not you.

Either way, the model doesn't really have the right to sign the contract because she doesn't hold the copyright. But I am sure he can claim that he didn't know that and get away wth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

...Or try to..

Thank you Jason for your opinion..

JP
 
 
Re: Opinions & Answers Please..
Old 12-31-2005, 03:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I also agree with Andrew. He's trying to get around you. Cheesy.
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Re: Opinions & Answers Please..
Old 12-31-2005, 03:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Not a purist here just observing. Now that I am past the half century mark of dealing with the greatest people in the world and the scums of the world I have learned a few lessons. One lesson that I learned many moons ago was 'There is a right way to do things, a wrong way and a less than honorable way'. Ask yourself if this "publisher" is doing it wrong or less than honorable and if the answer is yes then there you go.

Mike
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Re: Opinions & Answers Please..
Old 12-31-2005, 03:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
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[ QUOTE ]
little thingy

[/ QUOTE ]

Size matters. Sorry, couldn't resist. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Seriously, I think the "Founder" is trying to do an end run around you. Photographers license the rights to photos, usually for a fixed fee. That creates risk for this seller. And, he probably knows he will not sell a lot of the photos. With a split, whether he is honest in the accounting or not, he has no risk. He makes money off of some else's work, model and photographer.

Easy money if you can get it.

Tom
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Re: Expert opinion on this
Old 12-31-2005, 03:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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The rights-seeker (herein "thief") is dumb, ignorant, slovenly, or outright crooked. This is an obvious endrun around the copyright holder photographer.

The thief MAY think he can protect himself from a copyright action by the photographer, by getting 'permission' from the model. Without bothering my learned colleagues with a treatise on copyright, the fact is, he cannot.

The aspect which struck me and seems to have slipped by my learned colleagues is that the thief is asking the model to indemnify him. This means if the photographer sues under copyright, the thief can demand the model pay the thief's legal fees. Which would be massive to the point of destroying the model.

Any time you see the phrase "hold harmless" or "indemnify..." you should beware.

If a thief pirated my work, he would very much regret it.
 
 
there is no question ...
Old 12-31-2005, 03:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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There is no question that the mag is trying to 'do a deal' with the model and cut you out. The little "© thingy" proves that. The model let you know? Good on her! That a magazine is doing this is proof the mag is not legitimate and indicative that they are most likely in financial trouble. I assume it's a paper mag rather thann an 'ezine', I've come to expect that sort of behavior from the later.

If the mag is trying to screw you (and they are), they will certainly screw the model out of any possible profits. After all, she will have to take their word as to sales and they have already demonstrated they are less than honest. Any legitimate mag, even a third tier mag, would have a team of lawyers or at least 'a' lawyer on retainer who would tell them they are opening the door to a lot of liability. I'm not a lawyer, but I doubt that hold harmless clause would mean didly squat in a courtroom.

Whether you chose to let her do it is your call; whether she would be wise in wanting to do it could say a lot about her wisdom.

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