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Don\'t you hate it when....
Old 10-12-2005, 12:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Someone won't let a topic go...I had training for my new job today, but it was cancelled because the instructor was sick. So I come home and sit down and relax at my computer to find that a person just can't let a topic go. The thread is back to the top AGAIN...I said I wouldn't respond to him and I'm not going to, but I'll vent here because I think that the thread turned into something it shouldn't have. I responded to Timx's topic about working with someone who demonstrates abusive qualities. My advice was (basically) don't encourage the behavior by working with him. Then I saw a post (basically saying) that it's only abuse if you let it be. I posted an emotional response to that because that idea is so wrong. Plus men often feel like they have to take abuse because of societal double standards-and that is wrong. All I wanted to say was that abuse is abuse and that turned into me having to re-explain and defend my point over and over again that verbal abuse is still abuse and should not be tolerated and now I've just been accused of being dense and having an agenda...I know all about posting here and how things can be taken out of context in writing, but I don't see how my saying don't take abuse turns into me having an agenda...

Are our ideas of abuse really that skewed?

Those who have known me for years, not a few days or months, know that I don't have an "agenda" and I don't cause problems. I help people with professional advice, some of it is based on opinion and most on fact and experience. This particular advice was based on all of the above. I admit that I take all abuse very seriously. It's a complex societal issue that we should not be so complacent about. Our government takes abuse seriously. You can ask my ex about that. His final hearing is coming up. I never had to do anything after my daughter called 911. The state took over, arrested him and pressed charges. After seeing the state respond, I knew that there were advocates out there for abused people. No one (male or female) ever has to take any kind of abuse. Verbal abuse is where is all starts, so it needs to be stopped there. The dynamics of abuse are very interesting because it is a slow erosion of thinking patterns that alter your perception of reality. The abuser is a predator who knows exactly what he is doing and he is willing to spend time to do it right. He makes you feel dependant, stupid (dense) and weak. Then he isolates you which makes you uncertain of who your advocates are and distrusting of your own ability to make decisions-which ultimately makes you dependant upon your abuser. Anyone can be a victim no matter how strong they think they are because abuse is a mind game played only when you are vulnerable. Abusers recognize vulnerability and know how to use it against you. Many abused people either don't recognize that they are in an abusive situation because they justify it or they don't know how to get out or they are ashamed to admit that it happened to them. This is why it's important to see the signs early and to not enter the situation. I address the issue as it comes up because I think it's important and it is applicable in all areas of life-both professional and personal. If this is dense and having an agenda, I suppose that's fine-atleast I'm not telling someone to lie down and take it-that's as bad as doing it...

OK, time to try to relax again...I'll turn the computer on again later.



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Re: Don\'t you hate it when....
Old 10-12-2005, 02:28 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Hi Jackie,
I find nothing wrong with anything you say. When I get a response to something I've said that appears to be an attempt to continue the discussion and nothing else I simply decline to be sucked in. The only thing you've said that I'm not 100% on board with is that the abuser knows what he/she is doing. I think that quite a few of them are just plain stupid and to lazy to correct the situation. The end results is still the same and requires law inforcement to correct it. Hope everything is turning up roses for you and your.
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Re: Don\'t you hate it when....
Old 10-12-2005, 02:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Jacki..I think we are in a business/hobby/whatever. where people HAVE to respect one another...Im going to get blasted for this Im sure...but I see alot of photogs come across as its all about me I created this wonderful image...Bull crap...without the Model you created nothing, Who physically works harder for a great image??? The Model, its up to the photographers creative eye and technical abilities sure....but I just see alot of attitudes like the model is just a piece of meat, trophy, Like Hey I caught a bigger fish....
I think Models should be put alot higher on a pedestal than what happens around here...as far as abuse is abuse you're absolutely right, why work for a Dyck??? whats the point? what do you have to gain???? Anyone that works to bust someone elses self esteem has issues of thier own to deal with.
usually all boils down to penis envy!! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Now where's JimmyD so I can bust his self esteem??
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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Re: Don\'t you hate it when....
Old 10-12-2005, 03:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hey Jackie,

I've got a few comments for you...

1) I think your passion is justified, however the types of 'abuse' you are refering to just doesn't ring with most guys - or at least young guys without wives or daughters to be concerned about.

2) The type of abuse orginally discussed in the thread is easy to avoid. Don't work in an environment where the boss is known to be a jerk. Simple. And by the way , what you had recommended.

3) I love the fact that you are so fiesty, or in a more PC world, 'passionate'. For such a petite lady, you pack a punch.

4) It was a pleasure working with you at Robert Sanders' studio last month and look forward to working with you in the future. I don't want to believe the past "retiring from modeling" comments [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

5) Best of luck to you in your new job.

P.S. I know I owe you images. I not flaking on you, I'm just swampped with my real job. I'll get themm out ot all of the models shortly.
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Re: Don\'t you hate it when....
Old 10-12-2005, 07:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think part of the problem is that abuse is a relative term. There is abuse and there is 'abuse', what you went through is ABUSE, actually criminal abuse. On the opposite end of the abuse scale is simple rudeness, a boss who is rude and inconsiderate is absolutely one form of abuse, but what you experience dis off the scale, it was crin=minal abuse and that's a whole different thing.

As for the level of abuse you described, well here in the deep south we used to have a remedy for that. It often involved qualtities of hot tar and feathers, sometimes a bulwhip, sometimes just about 3 'good old boys' and a private 'conversation'in the back yard or behind the barn.

The form of abuse you experienced is simply not permissible, but a rude and incoinsiderate boss? I don't know. that's difficult, but if there is enough to learn, it could be accepted for a while.
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Re: Don\'t you hate it when....
Old 10-12-2005, 07:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I missed the entire post you're talking about.....but I had to say.......I love that photo of you!
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Re: Don\'t you hate it when....
Old 10-12-2005, 07:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I believe that almost all of what you wrote is correct, but I question whether or not the abuser always knows what he/she is doing.

I think that if a person is brought up in an abusive family situation, that is learned behavior. That isn't an excuse, because there is none, but perhaps an explanation for some behavior.

I hope you don't face the same situation again.
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Re: Don\'t you hate it when....
Old 10-12-2005, 08:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote; It's only abuse if you let it be?

So it's the vitims fault that this is happening rather than the person doing the abuse. Something bassackwards about that one.

Jim
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