Lens Diaries Go Now
Glamour, Beauty, Nude, Models, Photographers

*    |  Register  


 
Go Back   Garage Glamour™ > Garage Glamour™ Main Forums > Main Community Forum
 

Main Community Forum General Modeling & Photography Forum
Adult posts prohibited!>>Please Read Our GUIDELINES before posting!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
i got screwed without a kiss...lesson for all you shooters
Old 10-11-2005, 08:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35230
Location: new york
Posts: 478
Comments: 1
Send a message via AIM to glennusdin Send a message via Yahoo to glennusdin

glennusdin is offline IP: 68.54.144.163
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

So last year a dancer at one of the local mens clubs contacts me through OPM and we meet and shoot. She is a doll, just a nice classy funny lady, great body...great face, a super reliable person. We've shot a few times since.

So my cool friend introduces me to one of her other local dancer friends who needs pics..and I shoot her twice as well. The second shoot I told her that in return for me doing a full production shoot ( MUA stylist, location, assistant) I need a model release signed. Cool, she says, and happily signs the release at the shoot. We did some cool stuff. Great. I knew I would sell this stuff.

I didnt shoot a pic of her photo ID. Don't know why. But now I know what getting screwed without a kiss is like.

Fast foward to this week, one of the major mens magazines contacts me to buy the set. Cool. I send them the CD of images and the release. They ask me for a copy of her photo ID as well. I don't have it. I call her. She says, "Wow, thats great, I'll fax it right over!"

Fax never arrives.

Foward to this morning: Voicemail on answering machine " Hi Glenn, I've thought it over and I don't want to be in the magazine. I'm not faxing the ID over. But let's shoot again real soon."

Nobody to blame but myself. I didn't shoot the photo ID. It takes 2 seconds. Do it and you are covered.

One more question...what if I had the ID and signed release....I wouldn't have even contacted her. What would she have been able to do to me if she saw the pics in the magazine? Is a model release and ID enough all the time?

Being screwed without a kiss is no fun. Waste of a day of shooting and all the expenses that go with it.

But I look on the bright side, at least she would shoot again with me. Yea, great!

This is NOT the model in question, but the very beautiful Erica Campbell:
  View Public Profile Send a private message to glennusdin Visit glennusdin's homepage! Find More Posts by glennusdin
 
Let ME ask you a question...
Old 10-11-2005, 09:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
____________
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35406
Location: Bogus
Posts: 947
Comments: 0

Al_Nowak is offline IP: 68.255.60.134
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Are you willing to bet your house on what a stranger may tell you in a reply?
  View Public Profile Send a private message to Al_Nowak Find More Posts by Al_Nowak
 
i\'m not willing to bet my lunch let alone my house
Old 10-11-2005, 09:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35230
Location: new york
Posts: 478
Comments: 1
Send a message via AIM to glennusdin Send a message via Yahoo to glennusdin

glennusdin is offline IP: 68.54.144.163
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

so the answer is no, i'm not a betting man, sorry.

i can tell you that from a decent background in corporate affairs, that her verbal acknowlegements and signing of the release might even constitute cause for agreement and consent of the right for me to publish the images.

But I also know the publisher would never run the images without the release and the photo ID.

Possibly her refusal to provide the ID might be cause for me to sue her for breach of performance, with my actual damages being the loss of revenue and expenses from the shoot.

But I am absolutely sure of only 1 thing, that I'm not willing to bet a dime on any of it with our crazy legal system.

I hope I still your comments without the bet.

  View Public Profile Send a private message to glennusdin Visit glennusdin's homepage! Find More Posts by glennusdin
 
Re: i\'m not willing to bet my lunch let alone my house
Old 10-11-2005, 10:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
JohnPaul
Guest
 
Member GG#:
Posts: n/a
Comments:

IP: 66.94.220.168
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Smart thinking! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

There are some brilliant lawyers out there who I'd never want to be on the wrong side of.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I'm sure you have several good IP atty's out by you... just go to them for an hour, and lay out every question you can muster up, so you know how to navigate through these high waters.. You can write that off you know.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

JP
 
 
I\'m not even going to pretend I know the answers to your questions...
Old 10-11-2005, 10:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
____________
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35406
Location: Bogus
Posts: 947
Comments: 0

Al_Nowak is offline IP: 68.77.110.183
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

I'm not even going to pretend I know the answers to your questions, and they are interesting questions.

Is a model release and a picture ID enough all the time?

Do you have any reasonable legal recourse if a model fails to produce a picture ID?

My point is that while we may commiserate and sympathize with you, that's all we should be doing. There are more appropriate places for real legal advice.

I'm not much of a bettor either, but I am willing to put a buck on the odds that you won't let it happen again.



  View Public Profile Send a private message to Al_Nowak Find More Posts by Al_Nowak
 
Re: i got screwed without a kiss...lesson for all you shooters
Old 10-11-2005, 10:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
TomRobin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Member GG#: 37855
Location: Pocasset
Posts: 150
Comments: 1

TomRobin is offline IP: 151.203.200.150
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Gleefully do another shoot with her. Copy the ID this time and now that you have it, go back and sell the first set. End of story.

Tom
  View Public Profile Send a private message to TomRobin Visit TomRobin's homepage! Find More Posts by TomRobin
 
that would not be ethical
Old 10-11-2005, 10:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35230
Location: new york
Posts: 478
Comments: 1
Send a message via AIM to glennusdin Send a message via Yahoo to glennusdin

glennusdin is offline IP: 68.54.144.163
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

it would be one thing if i had the ID and sold the set and then she came back to me and I could honestly say that I acted with good intentions and her actions in signing the release and giving me her ID constituted an agreement with me that publication was possible.

Once she notified me that she didn't want to be published, anything I do past that point that would lead to publication would be some form of willful misconduct. If not legally, certainly morally, in my eyes.

Sorry, but I would never do that.

FYI, I have already shot and paid models and had them complain to other models that they didnt know I was going to put their images up on my glamour website. What did they think I was planning to do with them? They signed a general release, gave me an ID, cashed my check, and then complain that I sold or posted the images. Duh!
  View Public Profile Send a private message to glennusdin Visit glennusdin's homepage! Find More Posts by glennusdin
 
Re: i got screwed without a kiss...lesson for all you shooters
Old 10-12-2005, 12:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer

 
gregkdavis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Member GG#: 38674
Location: Houston
Posts: 384
Comments: 0

gregkdavis is offline IP: 70.114.246.117
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

[ QUOTE ]

Fast foward to this week, one of the major mens magazines contacts me to buy the set. Cool. I send them the CD of images and the release. They ask me for a copy of her photo ID as well. I don't have it. I call her. She says, "Wow, thats great, I'll fax it right over!"

Fax never arrives.

Foward to this morning: Voicemail on answering machine " Hi Glenn, I've thought it over and I don't want to be in the magazine. I'm not faxing the ID over. But let's shoot again real soon."

Nobody to blame but myself. I didn't shoot the photo ID. It takes 2 seconds. Do it and you are covered.

One more question...what if I had the ID and signed release....I wouldn't have even contacted her. What would she have been able to do to me if she saw the pics in the magazine? Is a model release and ID enough all the time?


[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say that you had the photo ID. Legally, you may be within your rights
to sell the photo's. But would you have gone ahead without letting her
know? Is this something you would brag about on this forum?

What magazine is it anyway? What type of magazine? Maybe when she thought
about it she maybe felt it would have a negative impact on her life.

When people get vague, I get suspicious. Just because a model strips
for a living, it doesn't mean they all aspire to be seen in print
for thousands to see. Or even have their images posted online.

If your goal is to submit and sell the photo's to a pornographic magazine... why
not say that before you even begin photographing her? Then if she signs the
release and you get photo of her ID, then you would be able to move along and
not think about the fallout.

In fact, you should spell it out in print too. That way there are no illusions.

But be aware, people have been successfully sued because the use of the photo
was far beyond the intent of the photoshoot. The model release did not
protect the photographer because it was vague.

Greg.




  View Public Profile Send a private message to gregkdavis Visit gregkdavis's homepage! Find More Posts by gregkdavis
 
i guess you won\'t be posing nude then
Old 10-12-2005, 12:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
Lifetime Photographer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Member GG#: 35230
Location: new york
Posts: 478
Comments: 1
Send a message via AIM to glennusdin Send a message via Yahoo to glennusdin

glennusdin is offline IP: 68.54.144.163
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

sorry but the entire tone of your post has this holier than everyone else tone to it.

i'm not telling you, or anyone else, who most of my clients are, and if thats vague.....too bad.

she knew the magazine and the images were not pornographic.

i'm done with you.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to glennusdin Visit glennusdin's homepage! Find More Posts by glennusdin
 
Re: i got screwed without a kiss...lesson for all you shooters
Old 10-12-2005, 12:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
Free Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Member GG#: 38960
Posts: 49
Comments: 0

DaveFoto is offline IP: 70.162.73.20
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Hi Glenn, one point I think you and the others are missing is that even if you have a photo ID if the model suddenly gets some sort of remorse and decides she doesn't want to be published and you go ahead with it you could very well find yourself in the middle of a messy legal fight. Sure, you may win the fight but will what it might cost you in terms of money, time, goodwill, missed opportunities and everything else be worth what you may get from it?

You have to weigh the potential benefits against the costs.

Good luck.
  View Public Profile Send a private message to DaveFoto Find More Posts by DaveFoto
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Sponsors


New To Site? Need Help? Photographer & Model Links
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:36 PM.

© 1999-2017 Garage Glamour™




Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93