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Emmanuelle des fleurs
Old 09-26-2005, 11:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Here's one of our test shots of Emmanuelle. Image is unedited.




-Steven W. Choi
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Re: Emmanuelle des fleurs
Old 09-26-2005, 11:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Its a very nice image. But what does unedited really mean? If the shot was on film, and scan, then it has been edited as a result of the scan and the scanner options. If it was shot in RAW, then it was processed by a RAW converter and choices were made in WB, saturation, contrast, etc. If it was shot in JPG, then it was processed with various in camera settings. Why is it important for you to let us know that it is unedited, is sort of what I'm asking?

As for general improvements, I think more light on the face would sell the image a bit more. There are a number of post processing steps that could add punch to the image.

But all that being said, I still like the image and think it has a very nice look, but I think it could be better.



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rfs
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Re: Emmanuelle des fleurs
Old 09-27-2005, 12:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Hmm...R_Fredrick_Smith:

Not sure what you're getting at here. The shot was taken in RAW with no options selected and with studio flash at 5500K. That being said, the WB at 5500K is equivalent to the studio flash, so I fail to see any confusion.

Un-edited means:

The photo has not been edited. No skin corrections, color adjustments, gamma, hue, contrast, or any of the nifty sharpening or softening filters and/or simple edits in photoshop. What you see is what came out of the camera. Sure, we could edit them all to look nicer and they will ultimately be edited for the client, but I managed to put one up on the web to share until then. Mentioning that it is unedited is putting a bit of a disclaimer that "I haven't had a chance to process it in photoshop".

Hope this clears things up. I like to put that disclaimer in when I post something without messing with it in photoshop. The skill is in the photography. Not photoshop. I have technicians to do that. computer guys...you know...standard vanilla... I mean, look at your example before and after picture....one is NOT edited which you call "BEFORE" and one IS edited that you call "AFTER". My picture is "BEFORE".

P.S. I agree with your recommendation. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

-Steven W. Choi
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Re: Emmanuelle des fleurs
Old 09-27-2005, 12:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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[ QUOTE ]
The shot was taken in RAW with no options selected and with studio flash at 5500K

[/ QUOTE ]

If the shot was RAW, then isn't that a form of editing? If you just chose the Auto settings of the RAW Converter, that is in effect a choice of how you wanted the image to look. But usually RAW converters let you set up some preset, or are already preset by the RAW converter supplier to match various cameras.

I suspect, when you say unedited, you really mean that you didn't make any changes in Photoshop.

Did you shoot this with an Olympus Camera, by the way? I not, then it must have been cropped to get that 4x3 ratio.

Would cropping count as editing? I always hear that we should crop in the camera, and I always try to do that, but I almost always find that what one sees in the view finder is not quite accurate. What are your thoughts in that regard?

I personally don't think its possible to call a RAW image after conversion "unedited", simply because choices have been made in setting up the conversion process. What RAW Converter do you use, by the way?

As to where the skill lies, that is an age old debate! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I like to think of one of the greatest of the old time photographers, Ansel Adams. Certainly any print of his that ever saw the light of day had been quite "edited" since he pulled or pushed the developer, and then did endless work in the darkroom and various types of papers and contrasts to get just the print he "envisioned". So to me photography is about seeing a vision of a scene and trying to ultimately show the viewer that vision. If that can be done with no post processing, that can be a plus. But I guess 99% of all photos today are manipulated in one way or another. Digital has just made it so much easier and practical.



Cheers,
rfs
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Re: Emmanuelle des fleurs
Old 09-27-2005, 07:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Hey, Steve, how've you been?

Interesting effect. She's lying on something transparent, backlit, right? I like the almost neon glow of the flowers and leaves. Are they real, silk, or plastic?

She looks very pretty, but have you got a straight headshot of her to post?

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Re: Emmanuelle des fleurs
Old 09-27-2005, 07:32 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Great image. I would like to see the shaddows open up a bit, only a bit.
I think the image would be a total winner if your angle would have been directly on top of the model. In portrait photography, but most specially when that portrait is of the glamour kind, we should always avoid shooting into nostrils.
I still think that it's a great image.
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you got a problem with nostrils?
Old 09-27-2005, 07:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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whats wrong with nostrils?
only kidding.
Agree 100%.

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Re: Emmanuelle des fleurs
Old 09-27-2005, 08:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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R_Fredrick_Smith:

The shot was taken with the Hasselblad H1D medium format camera with a 22mp digital back - Recently purchased the system through SSI-net.com as well as the new 9800 Epson Printer (PLUG). In the RAW menu, all settings were set to ZERO - thus "NO EDITING". Only the color balance was set at 5500 although when brought up to print, it arbitrarily came up as 6200 so I corrected that back to 5500 to match the strobes - anyone know why it does this? Our CANONS (D1s MarkII's and 20D's) seem to default to 5250 even when set to 5500...

Yes, I would consider cropping as some form of editing, but this image was not cropped. This is the aspect ratio of the H1D system: 645 which looks a lot like the Olympus E-10 I used to shoot with - still used for some macro work - great camera - old but still love it.

Yes, to answer everyone's question, I agree that the camera "should have been" shot dead on, but the client wanted to look "hippier" so after taking a few shots on the scaffold in a rather precarious position at 120mm (medium format), we switched to a ladder set-up with the 80mm normal at the slight angle. This is what they wanted and it will be processed onto 44in wide canvas today - client has already approved. I'll try and post one of the dead on in a bit.

Hope this answers the questions. Like your pic by the way, pretty cool. What is that background? Image of the girl looks hard against the soft background.

-Steven W. Choi
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Re: Emmanuelle des fleurs
Old 09-27-2005, 08:36 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Nice image. Sometimes you have to just ignore people here who just want to be argumentative. I do think the image could benefit by brightening her skin a bit. I like the backlit effect, but the skin seems a bit flat to me. Nice work, though.
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Re: you got a problem with nostrils?
Old 09-27-2005, 10:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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don't scare me like that
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