The problem with escorts, "photographers", and "models".

[jackell]

Personally, I got nothing against escorts, especially the ones who offer the full GFE, and hey, if a model wants to pay to bring one along, wether its for her or for me, I wouldn't object....








Oh... oh, oh, oh.... wait a minute....
I think we're talking about two different things here....
[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Nevermind....

[InfraRedAgency]

[img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[photopest]

OK, I've been one of those 'lurkers' since I joined but this hit the nail on the head with me as well. The number of 'pervs' with disposable cameras posting ads at supermarkets & gas stations hasn't decreased over the years.
Having shot mostly 'reality' photos for a number of years I can see a 'models' concern but like the comments, if they're not comfortable, cancel the shoot. There are plenty of other folks with cameras out there. Reason I dropped out of the genre a number of years back, a model showed up with an entourage that would have made a cabinet official visiting Iraq envious. Currently I'm getting back into the game with models I have already established a social connection. Hoping to have something to post soon. Alright, I'm going back into the shadows now to listen and learn [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[Doug_Lester]

I've never really understood the discomfort photographers have with someone watching while they shoot. I've done outdoor commercial shoots in public places with upwards of 50 people watching and shouting comments to myself and the model. I've done shoots with mothers, husbands, boy friends, fiancees, cousins and next door neighbors watching, but have never had a problem which went beyond a minor annoyance. If a chaperone becomes distrcting, then give a warning. The second time end the shoot, it's really that easy. I can jsut about guarantee that after a quiet, polite warning, the problem will end. I've always found that a polite word of caution ends whatever minor annoyance might be present.

Is our attention span so short that having someone watch us shoot is in and of itself distracting? A boyfriend is jealous? That's the model's problem, not mine. I once had to tell a couple to take it outside and within about minutes the problem had ended.

I once had a lady arrive with a can of mace in one hand and a pit bull on a leash in the other. I just told her she could keep one or the other, but not both. Withing minutes the pit bull and I were frineds, play wrestling on the floor.

I really don't understand the concept of a woman arriving at an unfamiliar location, to meet with a stranger and wear few or no clothes, but somehow "trust" is generated based on a few emails or phone calls. Trust is earned, it is not something which is automatic.

I've just known to many modles who did their homework, did the reference check thing, but were nevertheles, felt up, molested, druged, insulted or otherswise put into unlpeasant situations because the model was a 105 pound woman, alone with a 200 pound male and she trusted him based on reference and other checks.

My advice? Lighten up guys. If the model, or "model" is more comfortable having a familiar face present, is it really that much of a problem? Chaperones always welcome here!

Yep,...for the most part,...I can't stand "tag alongs".. especially male tag alongs..who think they know more about photography than I do.. I guess in this day and age,... if you have a camera in your cell phone, that automatically makes someone a "photographer"...

Please refer to these "photographers" as "GWC's ...or "Guy With Camera".....not as actual photographers so that we don't get confused....also,... please refer to these "models" as "GWP"...or, "Gal With Page"... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] so that real models aren't accidentally mixed in with the GWP's of this world.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

This topic grabbed my attention because I recently shot with a beautiful model twice in the last year,...she came up here from Chicago with her "Manager" / "BWI"....or, "Boyfriend With Issues" [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ....who watched her every pose,.....even going as far as directing her poses which made this awesome beauty constantly look over to him every time I just found my "grove"..which blew it every single time! I even caught the bozo doing it because as most of you know, the rear LCD screen on a digital camera also makes for a good rear view mirror as well.. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ...and I was watching this clown pose like a cutie pie model...and even made a remark about his posing techniques,...which he abruptly denied.....LOL.. I guess the biggest issue I actually had with the guy was that he kept her from really stepping it up... he couldn't allow certain things....but hey,...if you are a "glamour model",...like,....WTF..? Yes,...things from time to time don't cover certain things completely,...and there is a mutual understanding that those shots won't be published,..but I can't stand it when some dufus thinks he is the god damn director and yells ""CUT!!""..and screws up the whole [censored] shoot! ....because at those times,.... the expressions are there...the comfort level is high...all I have to do is say.. put that back there...or.. cover that up a little more over there... not... HEY!! STOP!! DON'T DO THAT!!! YOU're EXPOSING YOURSELF!!! COVER UP RIGHT NOW!!!!! Geezus Flipping Khrist!! I'm the photographer.....you are the insecure boyfriend who tagged along for the ride you stupid jerk you!

Well,...... the honeymoon is now over,...and they are no longer on good terms... and now, he has been vindictive to her,... deleting her various modeling sites,...(including her GG site)..not providing her with the CD's with the images of her from the various photographers she's worked with over the last year,...keeping her portfolio prints,....plus he holds the keys and owns the DM of her personal website, which came down too..and since he "managed her",... he had all the e-mail offers from the various modeling websites she was featured on, sent to his e-mail account, which he didn't share with her at all.. Nope,...if you sent her an offer, it went right to BWI,..not her........go figure..

Oh well,.... I do believe that now she will finally blossom without having the live under the burden of his "management".....and I contacted several of the photographers she's worked with over the last year, and they are presently getting CD's and portfolio prints out to her once again, to help her out in this unfortunate situation.....and apparenlly, many other photographers also had similar issues as I had with BWI..

I just love a happy ending! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

JP

[riosun]

Alan,
What you're describing is a situation where a photographer or GWC or whatever has decided that he is going to rape, murder and tear the labels off the mattresses of some model or "model" or small barnyard animal he has never met. He is armed and ready to murder the escort or BF or 4-H student or Farmer as well.

Is this really a common scenario in our business? Are the homes of America really harboring thousands of SKWC's (Serial Killers With Cameras)?

Persoanlly, I don't find escorts a problem. If they start disrupting things, I ask them to stop. Three strikes and you're outa the studio. You want her to leave, too, fine. I just man up and take control of the situation. I'm too old a fart to take any [censored] from strangers in my studio. No fights, no arguments, it's time to go. You don't wanna go? I can count to 911 on the phone.

When things get outa control between two people, many times it's nothing Machiavelian. Chances are there was no grand scheme with flow charts, pie charts and 8x10 glossies with circles and arrows and a full-page explanation on the back.It's a crime of circumstance, it just "Happens."

You act like any pro model can channel the spirit of Lisa Fonssagrives and determine the ulterior motives of a stranger ... or a friend for that matter. Date rape is more common than model rape.

Personally, I think a lot of photogs, present company excluded, of course, don't want any loss of control over the model. For the duration of the shoot, she's their little love puppet.

Or maybe they're secretly hoping that swept up by the artistic fervor of the moment, she'll rip off her top and let the ladies breathe free!!!!!

Actually, I've been in two situations in the past year where the escort/BF was all in favor of sexier pics but the model said, "Uh-uh." We wept together= the BFs and I.

All men are not creeps but there are enough out there so that I feel models should do what they need to be safe.

Bruce

[Andy_Pearlman]

First off, there is a difference between a shoot with pro models and clients and crew and all that standing around. When I do those shoots for the beer clients and such, yes, you do have to be comfortable with an audience. That is not the same as working in close (psyhologically speaking), and trying to evoke a sensual or sexually provacative attitude from a beginner, or even some models with experience. You have to communicate with them, to get them to communicate back. Its very much like going to a psychologist, where its usually much easier to "let go" and expose oneself to a "stranger" (even if the stranger is a photographer with a crew) than to ones significant other, or family members.

Its not just how much skin are they going to show (even if they're not showing any skin), but what they communicating with their eyes and mouth, and body language. They're often projecting an attitude the SO thinks should only be reserved for "them", OR the model can be embarrased by showing a side the SO has never seen. It is normal for a model to freeze up, and lose the magic, as soon as the boyfriend comes in the room, so we keep them out of the room. I've found that the models know this instinctively, and so try to leave the SO home in the first place. (A girlfriend is better, but can sometimes still be a problem). If they do come, I have a talk with them, and explain that they need to disappear for this to work, and if they're sincere about helping their girl get the best results, they will do it. (That doesn't mean they're not concerned for her safety, we make sure they meet eveyone and understand the situation is purely professional, and he can have her back when we're done).

Now, sometimes you get a girl, maybe a pro, who is sincerely comfortable with her SO, and you learn about that when you meet and discuss the shoot with her. Frankly, in those cases the SO can be helpful (moving lights for example [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] ) but just as often he gets bored and goes in the other room to watch a football game or take a nap. When I've shot Sandee Westgate, her husband Josh comes along and we spend a lot of time talking shop, as he is a photographer himself (does all her web stuff). It may see strange to see a guy cracking jokes and drinking a soda while his wife walks around the studio naked, but like I said, they're pros and there's no problem.

Regards,
Andy Pearlman
Andy Pearlman Studio

[kcphotoman1]

As a semi professional photographer, I have two rules that I try to abide when it comes to photography.

Rule #1: Have fun!
Rule #2: Try not to go broke following rule #1

For Models, I always suggest Rule #3:

Don't get killed following Rule #1!

Safety First, Artistic License Second. A model's personal safety should ALWAYS be her first priority. Getting the "shot" should be second! Otherwise you never know when that "perfect" shot is going to be sitting on her empty casket!

Get real! Have some consideration for your fellow humans. Most of you photogs won't trust the airlines by checking your equipment, but you expect a lone female to meet you on your terms, your location, and your time. Come on! For those who don't think a model should have an escort if she wants one, why don't you just have the model pick up your equipment the day before the shoot, and take it to the photo shoot location. Don't ask for her address or phone number, you can always contact her by email if she doesn't show up with your equipment. After all, you did check her references!

FYI: http://www.wtov9.com/news/4879230/de...u&psp=news

Mark

[Brattitude]

OMG... I can't believe you went there... Oh wait, yes I can [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

T

[Brattitude]

I have attended shoots escorted and unescorted and had the same results regardless. I have an absolute rule however when doing any sort of "bondage" shoots, that I will not do one without an escort for several reasons. When tied up, you are at the total mercy of those around you, and one never knows. I go into all of my shoots with a level of comfort or I don't go, but life happens when you've made other plans, and most crimes against women are committed by someone they know. Second, it never fails, but as soon as you're tied up something starts to itch or tickle uncontrollably, and I'd rather have my friend or husband scratch my nose or armpit or whatever.

As far as regular shoots go unbound, I have such a level of comfort and trust with my husband, I have found that often times I get sexier pictures with him present. I guess it kind of cuts the tension a bit.

Now on the other hand, having my hubby as a photographer, I'm usually present, not because I don't trust him but because to many people are sue happy and you never know if someone might try to claim inappropriate contact. I also always encourage the models to bring someone for the same purpose. We had one model who didn't bring her boyfriend, but after the 15th or 20th call from him in 2 hours, we told her she should have brought him, it would have been less distracting.

T