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CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 06-28-2007, 10:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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When I "Save for Web", greens and reds become desaturated (red becomes orange, and green loses its brilliance). I tried saving directly to .jpg but to no avail. I cannot retain the vivid colors that I see on the screen, just prior to saving. Here is my workflow:

• I've calibrated my screen with Monaco Optrix, as much as can be done on my PowerBook G4 17" screen
• I shoot RAW out of my 1d MKII (Adobe RGB)
• Process RAW in Bridge (CS2) - Color space Adobe RGB - white balance, exposure adjustments, etc.
• Open in CS2, do some further tweaking adjustments - Color space is still Adobe RGB in CS2 as default as I open the files
• From 16 bits to 8 bits
• Reduce to 72dpi @ 800 pixels tall (for vertical portraits)
• If I'm going to use Unsharp Mask or High Pass/Soft Light, I first convert from Adobe RGB to sRGB, using Convert to Profile
• If I'm going to use Fred Miranda's Intellisharpen, I'll use the Convert to Profile after the Miranda process
• Then Save for Web

As soon as the Save for Web window opens, using "2-up" comparison, the "Original" window already shows a reduction in red and green color saturation, becoming dull compared to the photo before saving. To keep within the parameters of a lot of forums (i.e. 300k or less), the quality will be around 85 before saving. The red becomes even more orangy, and the greens become duller/darker.

Any suggestions to keep the colors as vibrant to what I see before saving? I know there is some loss of quality in saving, but I've seen vibrant colors on a lot of web sites, and would like to do the same, without manually pre-tweaking blindly, and hope that it will come out okay.
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Re: CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 06-28-2007, 02:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardj7 View Post
When I "Save for Web", greens and reds become desaturated (red becomes orange, and green loses its brilliance). I tried saving directly to .jpg but to no avail. I cannot retain the vivid colors that I see on the screen, just prior to saving. Here is my workflow:

• I've calibrated my screen with Monaco Optrix, as much as can be done on my PowerBook G4 17" screen
• I shoot RAW out of my 1d MKII (Adobe RGB)
• Process RAW in Bridge (CS2) - Color space Adobe RGB - white balance, exposure adjustments, etc.
• Open in CS2, do some further tweaking adjustments - Color space is still Adobe RGB in CS2 as default as I open the files
• From 16 bits to 8 bits
• Reduce to 72dpi @ 800 pixels tall (for vertical portraits)
• If I'm going to use Unsharp Mask or High Pass/Soft Light, I first convert from Adobe RGB to sRGB, using Convert to Profile
• If I'm going to use Fred Miranda's Intellisharpen, I'll use the Convert to Profile after the Miranda process
• Then Save for Web

As soon as the Save for Web window opens, using "2-up" comparison, the "Original" window already shows a reduction in red and green color saturation, becoming dull compared to the photo before saving. To keep within the parameters of a lot of forums (i.e. 300k or less), the quality will be around 85 before saving. The red becomes even more orangy, and the greens become duller/darker.

Any suggestions to keep the colors as vibrant to what I see before saving? I know there is some loss of quality in saving, but I've seen vibrant colors on a lot of web sites, and would like to do the same, without manually pre-tweaking blindly, and hope that it will come out okay.
Try converting to sRGB prior to making your adjustments. That way, it'll be more WYSIWYG for the web versions of the photo. I'd only do it for the web copies though...but you already know that.
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Re: CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 06-28-2007, 02:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm not sure that it will make a difference before or after, but I'm willing to try anything. Thanks.
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Re: CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 06-28-2007, 02:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardj7 View Post
I'm not sure that it will make a difference before or after, but I'm willing to try anything. Thanks.
This has been covered a number of times of the years on G1 and GarageGlamour, but it can be difficult to find. As already suggested, you just need to convert the color space to sRGB right before you do the Save for Web. Here is a screen shot that shows the difference



As you can see quite a color shift. But if you change the image on the left to the sRGB color space before Save for Web, then they will both look like the one on the left.

The question always comes up, should we be using Adobe RGB as a color space to start with. I've never found any real advantage either in workflow or printing, etc. I make prints using sRGB and the same with Adobe RGB and the persons I show them to can't see the difference. If you shoot RAW you can always go back to Adobe RGB at any time with any image, so its always there if really needed. So I just set my camera to sRGB, and ACR to sRGB and PS to sRGB and I never wrestle with any of the issues that sometimes pop up.

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Re: CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 06-28-2007, 05:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply.

I've been through the RGB/sRGB debate on another forum for quite some time. RGB for my Epson printer, sRGB for outside labs, seems to be just right.

As far as my problem is concerned, I've followed the suggestion of RGB to sRGB just before Save for Web, and it makes no difference. Even on opening the Save for Web window, without saving yet, the "Original" on the left on the "2-up" option has already lost color saturation, and the one on the right in that window, loses some according to resolution, but not that much from the "Original" of the "2-up".

Compared to the Photoshop photo that was used to "Save for Web", there is quite a bit of difference in color saturation. The "Save for Web - Original" should be the same as the one worked on in Photoshop, I would think, but it seems not. I'm sure there's an explanation and solution.
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Re: CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 06-28-2007, 05:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardj7 View Post
Thanks for the reply.

I've been through the RGB/sRGB debate on another forum for quite some time. RGB for my Epson printer, sRGB for outside labs, seems to be just right.

As far as my problem is concerned, I've followed the suggestion of RGB to sRGB just before Save for Web, and it makes no difference. Even on opening the Save for Web window, without saving yet, the "Original" on the left on the "2-up" option has already lost color saturation, and the one on the right in that window, loses some according to resolution, but not that much from the "Original" of the "2-up".

Compared to the Photoshop photo that was used to "Save for Web", there is quite a bit of difference in color saturation. The "Save for Web - Original" should be the same as the one worked on in Photoshop, I would think, but it seems not. I'm sure there's an explanation and solution.
The Save for Web has an option that can cause the problem if it is not set correctly. Here is the menu and the one I've checked is normally the way you want this option set.



If you try each of the options you'll see that you can get a quite radical difference in color between each of the 4 choices. But the the uncompensated one will make the image look the same as in Photoshop (assuming the change to sRGB before save for web).

Cheers,
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Re: CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 06-29-2007, 12:02 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I've been having this issue in CS3 and I see a difference between sRGB files in PS and Save for Web. The uncompensated setting was the problem. I checked the Use document profile instead.
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Re: CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 06-29-2007, 12:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I feel your pain. In fact, here's the thread I started just a few days ago on this very same issue. Took me a minute to find it, I guess the mods consider it a nude shot.

http://www.glamour1.com/forums/nudes...gradation.html

Richie says to use document profile, RFS is showing "uncompensated color". I'm still not sure. What I do know is there are some guys who've figured it out (BobbyG, RG, mhickey, etc.) because their uploaded images are crisp and appropriately saturated. It's a given that their images start out great but I'm talking about what we get to see and those uploaded images are identical to the originals I'm betting. My thread shows a screen capture where there is very obvious saturation loss on the uploaded image over the original PS image.

I've seen crisper, saturated images larger than mine so I don't think it's a sizing issue. I've tried the different Save for Web settings and don't get much of a difference. I've got a calibrated monitor (but that shouldn't be a factor because I can upload an image and I can immediately see the quality loss on the same monitor). I've used various image quality settings on the upload that are greater than what RG says is plenty to do the job.

Sure would like to figure it out.
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Re: CS2 to Save for Web color saturation loss
Old 07-09-2007, 07:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardj7 View Post
When I "Save for Web", greens and reds become desaturated (red becomes orange, and green loses its brilliance.

Chenge the mode to "lab" just before you "save for web". You'll be happy!
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