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Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-10-2007, 10:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
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If I open a jpg for printing, crop to a new size and print, but don't save the final result, will this result in image degradation? I have most of my favorite images saved as a large format (13x19) jpg, but occasionally someone will want smaller/different size prints. So I open the image in PS, recrop and print but don't save the resulting file.
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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-10-2007, 12:11 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If your not saving you should not see any quality losses. Are you having an issue?

JK
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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-10-2007, 12:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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No issues that I've noticed- just didn't want to have to save each photo in different sizes for future printing.
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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-10-2007, 02:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Note the file size before you open it. Then check again after you close. If there is a difference, something has changed. Not foolproof but a quick and dirty test. Otherwise you start getting into checksum and other things.

If it's real valuable, burn it to a CD and close the disk so it can't be overwritten. Then copy and edit to your hearts content.

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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-10-2007, 06:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tok1 View Post
If I open a jpg for printing, crop to a new size and print, but don't save the final result, will this result in image degradation? I have most of my favorite images saved as a large format (13x19) jpg, but occasionally someone will want smaller/different size prints. So I open the image in PS, recrop and print but don't save the resulting file.
Only saving will result in loss of quality. Every time you save, it applies the compression routines again which loses more information. But since you're just loading it, naturally no loss occurs. But it already has the loss built in from the original format it was in. That's why RAW is a better format to save originals in because then you always have all the data that was available when the shot was made. If you shoot JPG in camera, then at the moment it is saved out of the camera's buffer you lose about 75% of the data. So you must always ask yourself, what could I have done in Photoshop with that lost data. This even holds true when resizing the image later. If you had the original RAW data, then you could get a better result in the resizing of the photo.

Note: It is possible to save a JPG and not lose any information in the areas you want to preserver. This would use the Alpha JPG Mask technique that I wrote an article on and you'll find the article in the Articles section of G1. This assumes that you save out the key areas at 100% quality and other areas at a lower quality. The image in my article will give you an example of this concept.

Cheers,
rfs
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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-11-2007, 08:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I do shoot in RAW- just once my editing is finished I save a jpg. Was wondering if PS did an internal "save" applying the compression algorithm when it sent the file to the printer. I use this only to recrop for different print sizes temporarily from a larger master jpg.
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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-13-2007, 10:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Just make sure you use the Save as and choose 12 quality on any resaves...
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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-13-2007, 11:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Reading this got me wondering - is the file spooled to the printer "saved" in any fashion? I understand and completely agree that the originally opened file on the hard disk would be unaffected. But there is a "copy" made in RAM when a file is printed (or copied or otherwise internally manipulated). It seems to me that this spooled copy MAY be of different quality than either the original HD file OR the virtual copy internal to PS (or other image processing software).
Not sure if this makes sense or not, but I was just curious.
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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-13-2007, 12:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tok1 View Post
If I open a jpg for printing, crop to a new size and print, but don't save the final result, will this result in image degradation? I have most of my favorite images saved as a large format (13x19) jpg, but occasionally someone will want smaller/different size prints. So I open the image in PS, recrop and print but don't save the resulting file.
I have done the same thing with making prints on my Epson. Resize to make the print and then simply delete it. There will not be any change in quality in your original image because it still exists as it is in your hard drive folder or photo cd.
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Re: Edit jpg but no save- ? loss quality
Old 06-13-2007, 01:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jford View Post
Reading this got me wondering - is the file spooled to the printer "saved" in any fashion? I understand and completely agree that the originally opened file on the hard disk would be unaffected. But there is a "copy" made in RAM when a file is printed (or copied or otherwise internally manipulated). It seems to me that this spooled copy MAY be of different quality than either the original HD file OR the virtual copy internal to PS (or other image processing software).
Not sure if this makes sense or not, but I was just curious.
Yes the printer file is different than the photo file you started with or its internal representation in the Memory of the program you're printing it out of. The printer drivers change the file appropriately for the printer's use and so the quality of the print drivers will effect the ultimate printed result. That is why for years there have been drivers available for printers that are sometimes so for an extra cost and give better results than the driver that comes with a printer. Is the quality different? It can be.

Its sort of like translating text from one language to another. It depends on the translator as to how certain words will be rendered.

For example, take the text in Greek:

polus protos eschatos eschatos protos
which one translator rendered:

But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

and another rendered:

But many who are first now will be last then;
and some who are last now will be first then.

Quite a difference, but both are acceptable translations. But each gives a different picture to the reader.

Another factor is whether you let the program control certain aspect of the printing or whether you pass it off totally to the printer driver. For example Photoshop gives you the ability to do that.

There is no lossy compression taking place however, so all of the available data "could" be used by the driver or the program or a combination of both.

Cheers,
rfs
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