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Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 10:42 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 10:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Chase,

We did not agree in the last thread--but we will agree here--that is for sure. After spending a few years as a photojournalist, I have a hard time swallowing ditital manipulation post-capture. A little adjustment to lighting, a crop, check your levels, and that is about all I am accepting of. It has to do with things in the world today such as HDR, etc. Do not get me wrong--HDR is really cool and impressive. But, in my mind, one never really knows when an image is posted, printed, or viewed that it is even close to the original image/subject.

I watched the Dove trailer--maybe you posted it a week ago or so? After watching that--I was blown away. Stretching her neck, changing this and that--heck, she looked nothing like the original woman that the photo was taken of. I am not knocking the CS2 masters and clients do pay them to do what they do. They are professionals making incomes and being paid what clients ask them to do--and there is nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 11:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 01:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_canade' View Post
here is the FHM Nov cover shot for now:


As photographers, both pro and amature alike, has it crossed over into being a cg image now or do you still concider it a photograph?
I would have to see the un-retouched version to make a critique on that.
But...I think that it is a different beast alltogether. I am sure the original IS a good picture, and the photographer probably did a great job. However, the photographer is not the one in charge of the final outcome in this case. This is a MARKETING PIECE, used to sell sex...I mean, to sell magazines, and records.

While I am sure the debate will go on, I think it is worth noting that the photographer isn't always to blame for these heavily retouched, and digitally manipulated shots...the person paying for them is, and they have the final say.
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Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 02:20 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think that the FHM cover here is about as far as you can push it and still have it called a photograph. It almost looks 'fake' in my eyes. Others may not see it that way, but that is just my opinion...The Dove trailer was deffinately not a photograph in my eyes. Yes, it sure did look like one, but had you not been able to see the transformation--you would have thought that is what the model looked like. I think they added at least an inch to her neck....
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Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 03:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Actually if you want to get technical.

Unless it was shot on film and produced on a light sensitive material, or shot digital and printed on an LED printer it's not a photograph no matter how you dice it up.

Technology now has to define it as a Print or Image unless they want to add to the definition of the true meaning of "photograph".

Manipulation to the process of an end result to a printed form has always been challenged. From applying filters in the dark room to artist applying air brush, dye and pencil to photographs has always challenged the definition. When air brush and retouching was done it no longer became a photograph and was being defined as a "Print". This is why PPA calls it "Print Judging".

The Dove example has been going on for decades. It's just done with a computer now.

Back in the old days there were good air brushing and pencil artists techniques and there were bad artists. Today there are good digital artists and bad digital artists. Combine a good photographer and a good digital artist and it makes for great imagery. Keep in mind some of our credentialed deceased colleagues should be better known for being a dark room artist before they should be considered a great photographer.

If it starts with a camera.....Let's talk about the beginning execution to the vision for a final image vs definition of a photograph. One thing is for certain...if it's shot with a camera, it begins as a photo.

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Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 03:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsmith View Post
If it starts with a camera.....Let's talk about the beginning execution to the vision for a final image vs definition of a photograph. One thing is for certain...if it's shot with a camera, it begins as a photo.
Very well said sir! Very well said.
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Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 07:09 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Last edited by c_canade'; 06-18-2007 at 09:22 AM..
 
Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-11-2006, 10:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This topic gets a fair amount of exposure. We don't all agree. That's good. Life would be quite dull if we all viewed it in the same light. Whether created with a camera, paint brush, or other medium we are creating an image. Each image has a purpose.

Manipulation of an image can begin long before the shutter is opened and closed, or long after.

I visited a friends music studio once and watched a recording being made in post production. Using multiple channels and various controls a recording was created that had nothing to do with the original studio performance. Do we complain about how the music we listen to today might have been created?

The are differences of opinion on image creation. I think that is good, and healthy.The market will segment into smaller and smaller niches as it grows with time. Techonology makes many things possible. Imagine if our only source of artifiical light was a single powder tray. Image if Ansel Adams didn't burn and dodge in the darkroom.

Is this image a photograph (if printed on paper for the technical definition) or a cg image?



Does anyone care?

Tom
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Re: Photograph or CG image? - when does a photograph crossover into being a CG image
Old 11-12-2006, 12:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I hate to say this, but you folks have way too much time on your hands.

Photography is photography-
Digital art is digital art.

Doesn't matter if you manipulate pixels, silver halides or dyes, post production has
always been a process in the image creation business. The only thing that has
changed are the tools.

Some people like to use cameras to capture an image (ex: Canon, Nikon, Kodak).
Some people like to create using Software like Lightwave, Maya, or Studio Max.
Others prefer to use paint (Liquitex, Windsor Newton)
Others prefer digital paint (Photoshop, Painter).

And there are those who would rather sculpt using raw materials.

Finally there are those who use the various skills of various peoples to create an image.
(Usually that produces the best results).

Time to move on - and get back to work at doing what you do best, regardless of
the medium used.
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