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Re: Photographers, I Need Your Feedback :::
Old 01-26-2008, 01:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
R_Fredrick_Smith
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I've attended 20 or 30 workshops over the last 30 years --- everyone from Dean Collins to Peter Gowland. This also includes a number of RG workshops. These workshops were all over the spectrum in how they were presented. Each has had value for the most part, but each addressed a different need.

Let me give some examples of presentation methods:

Dean Collins was a straight lecture type presentation and for what he presented that worked very well. He had lots of printed materials and was very engaging in his presentation. He showed examples of how he would light sets but he also emphasized the fact that many attendees would not have the funds to buy expensive equipment, so he showed how to build your own (using PVC pipes – he even sold a book called Tinkertubes to show you how to make softboxes, light stands, etc – the book has now been placed in the public domain).

Rolando on the other hand presents two radically different types of workshops and each work well depending on your needs.

For example, his 4 day events allow photographers to break into teams of two and do a 2 to 3 hour shoot with a model (pro model and pro make-up) and a variety of high end lighting equipment. With a team of two, one can act as the assistant half the time. Interspersed in all this is lots of example lighting setups, discussions, and teaching. During the 4 days you shoot 5 models plus a number of group shots around the pool area. By the way, even though lots of pro level equipment is available, you often end up just using a reflector or scrim.

The other style is the 1 and 2 day affair that allows for about 1/2 day of instruction and 1/2 day of shooting (each day). One comes away from each of these types of shoots with lots of photos. Depending on how well the photographer listens and pays attention they may even come away with some very usable photos. Note: The cost of these 2 day workshops is $299 to $399 so they are very affordable.

In both of the RG style shoots, since they are generally over 1 day, you get the chance to show photos you taken the first day and get immediate feedback. You also get the advantage of comments that RG makes as he watches you shoot. This also extends to other photographers making comments --- which are sometimes helpful.

So, one point to be aware of, is that immediate feedback can be very valuable. With a lecture, examples and questions type workshop, one often misses obvious questions that would have arisen if hands-on was included.

Most people go to a lecture style workshop and come away with a lot of good ideas and are enthusiastic about trying the things they've seen, but they never actually try them for lack of models and equipment and a good place to shoot.

As others noted, one of the benefits of a workshop may be the ability to shoot with pro models, with pro make-up and with pro equipment and thus add to a portfolio that may make it possible for them to then attract models in their own area to work with. I've found that most photographers find it difficult to get models if they have nothing to show them in the glamour style arena. It’s a Catch-22!

I was sort of puzzled by your approach to asking for feedback. You start by asking for that feedback, but then you present your arguments up front for why you disagree with the feedback you are likely to get. I think it would have been better to ask for the feedback, but not present your counter arguments up front. This might have gotten more feedback. I think several good points have been raised in the responses you have gotten.

Now just a few other small notes:

Whether a workshop allows shooting or not, one thing it should always allow is the ability of the attendee to take lighting shots. In all the workshops I've ever been to, be they Collins, Gowland, Pierce, Gomez, etc, you were always allowed to take quick photos of the lighting setups, etc. This is important, since often times, mere notes and sketches of these setups will not be adequate later on.

So how might you incorporate shooting into your current workshops and still meet the goals you have for the workshops and to also answer some of your arguments against such shooting.

I would say that it might pay to setup up a shooting period where each photographer shoots for 5 or 10 minutes and then you critique what you observed. Would this be beneficial? Very! Why? Well its immediate feedback. The photographer is immediately shown where they might have gone wrong and what they can do to correct the problem. The other photographers watching will gain from this also, since often they would have made the same mistakes. Now, as each photographer shoots, they should, in theory, do a better job than the last photographer because they have the combined wisdom learned in the previous 10 minute sessions.

Another way to approach the above is to do a 5 minute session, critique it, and then let them shoot another 5 minutes to reinforce what they've learned. One might also have two rounds of shooting. In round One, each photographers shoots for 5 minutes and then a brief critique is offered. In Round Two each photographer shoots again and improves based on what they learned from the first round.

If you did the above, and also gave a promotional release, then each photographer would go away with what they already do from your lecture/answer question approach/by example and would have some good photos to use for attracting more models so that they could try shooting on their own with some of what they have learned.

Another issue is the level of pro lighting equipment that is often used in these lectures. While it’s wonderful to see such equipment in use, it is often beyond the budget of the photographer who would like to shoot glamour, but probably never will as a pro, since it’s a very limited market with lots of people competing for the few slots that are available. So I would recommend keeping the lighting simple for some of the sets and using equipment that would be available to anyone. One example of this is a local pro photographer in my area that gives workshops which use equipment and sets that one can build themselves, but get pro level results. This often opens up glamour type shooting to those who can't afford it.

Finally, why do people go to Glamour photography workshops? They want to do this kind of photography because it’s fun, creative and they want more than the routine of shooting portraits or landscapes. But will 90% of the people who go, ever do it at a pro level? Probably not? So mainly they go for the entertainment value of such workshops. If it were otherwise, I think you would see a lot more women attending. But the women photographers who attend are few and far between.

Well, this is my long, rambling, disconnected post in response to your request for feedback. I hope there is something that you can extract from it that will make some sense.

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Re: Photographers, I Need Your Feedback ::: 

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Last edited by R_Fredrick_Smith; 01-26-2008 at 03:51 PM..